Archive:2006-09-17/raw log

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<gnuklear> Alright, the Alaskan is here
<paulproteus> What more could we ask for?
<skyfaller> w00t!
<skyfaller> alright, shall we get started?  are we expecting anyone else?
<tannewt> lets roll
<gnuklear> I think we're good ;)
<skyfaller> alright, rolling commencing :)
<skyfaller> so, paulproteus and mllerustad are taking minutes?
<mllerustad> Hm?
<paulproteus> Just paulproteus I think.
<skyfaller> ok
<skyfaller> so, attendance:
<skyfaller> I see some new nicks here
<skyfaller> ChuckWard: who are you?
<skyfaller> krups? lucychili ?  Identify yourselves ;-)
<gnuklear> Ah, the strong but silent types..
<mllerustad> Lol...
<skyfaller> alright, on to people we know....
<stevemcl> Steve McLaughlin here, from UPenn
<schabot> Steven Chabot from Toronto
<gnuklear> Anthony Patarini, University of Alaska Fairbanks
<e1presidente> Dave Riordan - Hamilton College
<paulproteus> Asheesh Laroia from
<skyfaller> howdy :)  And I'm Nelson Pavlosky from, um, Swarthmore I guess
<paulproteus> (chapterlessly)
<tannewt> Scott Shawcroft from the University of Washington in Seattle
<FMFreeCulture> Ben DeRogatis from Franklin and Marshall
<mllerustad> Karen Rustad -- president-in-exile from Claremont.
<skyfaller> is that everyone?  alright
<skyfaller> first order of business: the national org could use a little help
<schabot> what positions are actually open?
<skyfaller> see
<gnuklear> help in what way?
<skyfaller> well, if you check out that web page, you can see an incomplete list of ways that you can help
<skyfaller> unfortunately there isn't much text describing what each job is, but it should be relatively self-evident
<e1presidente> I'd be glad to do something with the blog team
<gnuklear> Well, just taking a look, I've done the blog team thing before, and would do it again, and I'd be happy to help out the web team, though I'm just a bit rusty (but can still hack some basic php and such with ease)
* ninja ( has joined #freeculture
<skyfaller> great!  e1presidente and gnuklear , are you on the blog team mailing list?
<e1presidente> I was supposed to work with that before, but I never got the right auths and couldn't start writing
<gnuklear> Heh, I can't recall, it's been a while
<tannewt> I'm on the web team.
<gnuklear> probably not
<e1presidente> I'm not on the listserv
<FMFreeCulture> I'm a dumbass history major and don't know anything about programming, but I'd be glad to help with blogging
<skyfaller> OK, I'll put you guys on that mailing list
* paulproteus waves to current and prospective web team members as a current one
<skyfaller> we can use lots of people who are good at writing for the blog team
<gnuklear> lol, just tell me what you need paul
* tannewt waves a paulproteus and also wonders if we have a web team lead
<tannewt> s/a/at
<skyfaller> there will be some overlap with the "press team" which does media relations for us
<paulproteus> cwilkin is theoretically the web team lead, but I've been leading when necessary in his absence.
<tannewt> ok
<schabot> it would be good to get on the group blog
<skyfaller> alright, everyone who wants to help with the blog please hang around after the meeting so we can hook you up
<schabot> make it more prominent
<stevemcl> i second that
<skyfaller> in the mean time, please go to and make sure that you have an account registered there
<skyfaller> try to go to and it should give you an opportunity to register
<e1presidente> got an account - e1presidente
<skyfaller> ok, like I said, we'll hook you up with posting permissions if you don't have them already, after the meeting
<skyfaller> moving forward
<skyfaller> we could use some graphic designers and artists
<skyfaller> so if you are one or know one, please talk to Karen / mllerustad 
<gnuklear> Ah, yes, the bane of the open source project... eye candy...
* tannewt grins at klepas
<skyfaller> I think that expanding the blog team is good enough for today, so we can move on, unless anybody wants to talk further about helping with the national org
<e1presidente> Are there any other real gaps with national?
<gnuklear> Hows our non-profit status stuff going, also? 
<skyfaller> oh, there are tons.  Non-profit is stalled while we wait for a pro bono lawyer
<tannewt> we could create a free culture channel for the democracy player
<paulproteus> God Yes.
<gnuklear> k
<e1presidente> tannewt: we could tie that into the anti-drm video project
<skyfaller> tannewt: yes, we should do that, work with the blog team and web team to make that happen
<tannewt> skyfaller, alright
<skyfaller> it shouldn't be that hard, it should simply be a matter of making a category on our existing blog
<skyfaller> for video
<skyfaller> and channel-izing that
<tannewt> we're going to need a team if we want to produce content on a regular basis
<gnuklear> I'll support the idea of a freeculture channel... provided it doesn't take significant resources from other areas of the organization...
<tannewt> right
<skyfaller> for now it's just part of a blog team
<skyfaller> *The
<tannewt> alrighty
<schabot> I think we could aim to get a post a day out, with enough people it should be not too much work
<paulproteus> skyfaller, Should we look into OpenID registration for our WordPress?  That makes adding bloggers easier if they already have an OpenID ID somewhere else.
<skyfaller> we can take care of the channel at the web team meeting on Weds, or on our own time
<gnuklear> well, that said, I did start a small DemocracyTV channel at one point ( so I wouldn't mind helping set something up for it
<skyfaller> paulproteus: sure, it looked kind of sketchy to me but if you can make it work that would be fun
<skyfaller> gnuklear: oh, groovy :)
<skyfaller> let's talk more about this on Weds
<gnuklear> k
<paulproteus> skyfaller, I "might" look into that, then. (-:
<skyfaller>  is the web team meeting
<paulproteus> schabot, "a post a day" - you mean as far as the FC.o blog?
<tannewt> skyfaller, I dont think I can make it
<paulproteus> Or you mean Democracy Player?
<skyfaller> I think he means the blog
<skyfaller> not the video channle
<schabot> yeah
<schabot> the blog
<skyfaller> like I said, I think the video channel can just be a category on the blog
<schabot> sorry, I am at work and I am a little slow on the discussion :)
<paulproteus> schabot, I think aiming for two a week (one during the week, one on the weekend) is more realistic and still is an improvement.
<schabot> ok, but if we had like 7 people writing, once a day is not so hard
<schabot> how many are writing now?
<paulproteus> - posts are few and far between....
<skyfaller> I don't think it's so important to have a certain number of posts per day, it's just a matter of updating regularly, especially when there is big news.  1 a day is a reasonable goal, though
<paulproteus> I think we should aim for gradual improvement.  Once a day would be nice, for sure, but let's set more realistic goals on the path there.
<gnuklear> Ok, so that should be a stated desire for improvement from this meeting: More blog posts, from more people.
<skyfaller> we have a decent technorati ranking, lots of people link to us
<schabot> I just mean I think that if we spread the work, little work goes a long way
<skyfaller> it could be a good way to get the word out about things we care about
<skyfaller> indeed
<paulproteus> schabot, I agree, I just want the transition to that to be gradual.
<schabot> and it will make our site more diverse, because we all have our own interest
<tannewt> I might also take a crack at writing some articles we'll see
<skyfaller> paulproteus: no reason for it to be gradual if everyone wants to get started right now ;-)
<paulproteus> skyfaller, Yeah, but then in two weeks people will feel like they've written a lot and wonder what to say.
<paulproteus> (or so I worry)
<skyfaller> everyone who wants to blog should be put on the blog team mailing list
<schabot> oh me
<paulproteus> But anyway, we all agree we want more blogging. (-:
<skyfaller> one thing that list will be used for is e-mailing people when there is a piece of news that needs to be blogged
<skyfaller> so if people run out of things they've thought of on their own, they can check that list for other things to discuss :)
<skyfaller> and we can discuss how to cover the news if it is politically sensitive
<gnuklear> Hint: "idiot neocons" may be fun to say, but is not helpful
<skyfaller> heh
<lucychili> hi skyfaller
<skyfaller> alright, so like I said, everyone who wants to blog stay after the meeting and we'll make sure you're hooked up
<gnuklear> awesome, I got quoted.
<lucychili> sorry i wasnt about
<lucychili> im a visitor
<schabot> that is "Real Time" quotation
<paulproteus> No prob, lucychili, the agenda and minutes so far are at .
<lucychili> thanks
<paulproteus> lucychili, So read up there and pay attention here; if you have questions about already-covered stuff, ask, and try to participate in the discussion as it takes place here.
<skyfaller> lucychili: are you at a school somewhere?
<skyfaller> this is the room for the student organization
<lucychili> yes
<skyfaller> which doesn't mean you have to leave if you're not a student, just that if you are a student we want to help you start a Free Culture chapter on your campus ;-)
<lucychili> i know
<lucychili> i am not a student
<skyfaller> ah, too bad
<lucychili> i am from australia
<skyfaller> anyway, moving on
<schabot> wow wouldn;t that be great, australia
<lucychili> ive been talking to klepas about doing something freeculture ish in australia
<lucychili> but we wouldnt necessarily be campus based
<lucychili> im more org based
<lucychili> but i'd let klepas take the lead on that
<skyfaller> well, more free culture is always good :)
<paulproteus> Is there anything more to be said on "helping the national organization"?
<skyfaller> nope, I think we've done enough for today on that subject
<lucychili> is it possible to do a chapter which isnt campus based?
<gnuklear> Remix Reading sounds closer
<paulproteus> lucychili, Not a "chapter", but an "affiliated organization" might well be possible.
<lucychili> ok ty
<gnuklear> yeah, paul basically said what I was thinking... moving on
<skyfaller> so, moving on... how can the national organization help your local chapter?
<gnuklear> well, if you'd like to, oh, I don't know, make software patents illegal, that would help... please?
<skyfaller> :)
<tannewt> Someone should announce the new chapters starting this fall ;-)
<tannewt> then try to get it on slashdot/digg
<skyfaller> alright!  first job for the new blog team members ;-)
<skyfaller> dunno if that's digg/slashdot worthy, but sure
<tannewt> we can try
<gnuklear> Well, Cory on BoingBoing would probably be more open to posting it
<tannewt> yeah BoingBoing too
<schabot> I could use the annoucment, no one is biting here
<gnuklear> And getting boinged is just as good as /.ed
<tannewt> yup
<skyfaller> OK
<skyfaller> oh, another thing I wanted is for people who did something vaguely FC-related over the summer to blog about that
<skyfaller> e.g. paulproteus working at CC ;-)
<skyfaller> but we can take care of that later
<e1presidente> did we have any EFFers?
<tannewt> I've got a software project in my mind that will at some point need the support of chapters around the country
<gnuklear> Does switching entirely to GNU/Linux count?
<skyfaller> gnuklear: sure :)
<gnuklear> cool
<skyfaller> if that was your project for the summer
<gnuklear> will blog about that then
<skyfaller> tannewt: what's that?
<lucychili> do you as a group all do something for software freedom day?
<tannewt> I traveled the country interviewing people about internet culture.
<skyfaller> tannewt: I know that, and you should blog about that :)  but what's the software project?
<tannewt> skyfaller, a media distribution system, but there is no code written just a lot of though
<tannewt> thought
<gnuklear> Oh, that reminds me... CEO of Project Gutenberg is an employee of UAF, anyone looking to get in contact with him can try through me
* tannewt plugs
<skyfaller> what kind of "media distribution system"?  what's wrong with Bittorrent or or the Democracy Player platform?
<gnuklear> Or limewire... college kids love limewire :p
<schabot> or all three together in a nice 2.0 package
<tannewt> skyfaller, a p2p system allowing people to sell their work
<gnuklear> They already exist
<skyfaller> tannewt: that's just screaming "DRM" to me
<tannewt> without DRM, for indie artists mainly
<skyfaller> unless you're talking about something like
<tannewt> nope
<paulproteus> We can chatter about the pros and cons of that post-meeting, I suppose.  I'd be interested in hearing more at some point.
<tannewt> skyfaller,
<skyfaller> ok
<gnuklear> formerly prodigem
<gnuklear> unless I misunderstand, sounds like what you're talking about
<skyfaller> oh yeah!  I had a prodigem account, I'll have to check that out again
<gnuklear> Lessig used it at one point I recall
<skyfaller> oh crap, they're patenting something?
<skyfaller> MoveDigital's Patent on volumetric network access is set to issue in August.
<gnuklear> whobe whatey?
<tannewt> I'd love  to discuss my idea later
<lucychili> we have just had software freedom day and included training people on ubuntu, i am working on a card game to model copyright and copyleft publishing, in au the foss software folk actively promote free culture on software freedom day - you might be able to gain momentum and people by supporting that event it is a real buzz
<skyfaller> lucychili: yes, we are doing some software freedom day events on our campuses
<lucychili> cool
<skyfaller> OK, I'd like to hear from some of the people who have been quiet
<tannewt> well, I'm going to go but I'll leave my comp on so I can read it later
<tannewt> cheers
* FMFreeCulture has quit ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
<skyfaller> dammit, I was about to ask FMFreeCulture to speak
<gnuklear> First person to talk gets a dollar
<gnuklear> ... first new person
<skyfaller> stevemcl: what do you think the national organization could do to help your chapter?  how is your chapter doing, and what are its weak points?
<skyfaller> or e1presidente 
<skyfaller> or anyone, really
<gnuklear> Lol, well, I'll talk about UAF I guess...
<stevemcl> we need to get a solid board in place
* Wouter_vh has quit ("Leaving")
<skyfaller> stevemcl: board?
<stevemcl> which we'll be doing at our general body meeting a week from now
<paulproteus> Leaders of the club, skyfaller.
<e1presidente> The biggest issue with my chapter is finding a membership base
<schabot> me too
<gnuklear> ... ditto
<stevemcl> i think once we're solidified i'll have a better idea of our needs
<e1presidente> However fantastic they are, EFF decoder rings don't have as much pull as we'd imagine
<gnuklear> <.< Need to find that guy who always walks around with the firefox t-shirt
<lucychili> my game plan for getting more free culture people is to go join things like the local community tv channel
<stevemcl> board, meaning treasurer, promotions director, etc.
<lucychili> learn about what they do and help with a project to cover sffd
<stevemcl> all the freshmen at penn read lessig's book as part of a yearly reading project
<gnuklear> 0.0
<stevemcl> so we had about 50 people sign up right away
<e1presidente> Fantastic, you've got a huge pool right there
<gnuklear> wow... how'd you manage that one?!?
<stevemcl> just set up a table at the student organization fair, and a lot of people came over and talked to me
<skyfaller> Lessig went to UPenn as an undergrad
<paulproteus> No, I think gnuklear wants to know how you got the whole class to read _Free Culture_.
<gnuklear> I kinda meant the Lessig thing
<paulproteus> (And there's the answer.)
<stevemcl> ah
<gnuklear> ah, that'd do it
<lucychili> are there uni radio stations on your campuses?
<skyfaller> yes, and stevemcl has a show :)
<stevemcl> yep
<skyfaller> stevemcl: I was listening to your show for a while and recognized Negativland, but some of it was too experimental for me ;-)
<lucychili> doing interviews on $event on your local radio could reach the wider student groups as well as perhaps getting interest from the people running the radio?
<skyfaller> so people aside from stevemcl have problems attracting members? is that what I'm hearing?
<gnuklear> Well, the effort hasn't really been put into it, so no, not really yet
<skyfaller> gnuklear: talk to me privately, we'll get you hooked up with goodies etc.
<gnuklear> but, give me a couple weeks, and that'll be what I'm complaining about..
<schabot> gnuklear: same here, not having any help, I was waiting for everyone on campus to settle in first
<gnuklear> well, least I'm not alone on that count. And yeah, we'll talk after the meeting Nelsom
<gnuklear> Nelson*
<gnuklear> sorry
<skyfaller> brbb
<skyfaller> *brb
<paulproteus> One way FC.o might be able to help is with canned posters and promotional materials.
* klepas has quit ("Lost terminal")
<jibot> MacDome is a WebKit hacker emeritus and has a passion for fashion and is finally back in CA! and has junk in his trunk!
<gnuklear> Ah, jibot, on topic as usual...
<paulproteus> I'm working on setting up a a ccHost install that would serve up things like that and make contributing your own promotional materials to it easy.
<schabot> paulproteus: I agree, I am wanting to just plop myself at a table, it would be good to have things to send away with people
<lucychili> wipo broadcast treaty would be a good issue to use to get people talking
<lucychili> its bad news for CC and in progress now
<gnuklear> lucychili: It's important, to be sure, but would take a lot of explaining to "average" people on why it affects them
<gnuklear> as opposed to, say, iTunes DRM
<gnuklear> which directly affects them
<lucychili> the broadcasters are aiming to claim control of rebroadcast for 20+years on anything they boradcast
<lucychili> thats pretty simple
<lucychili> they are aiming for a right which has not fair use
<lucychili> which has no recognition of gpl or cc licenses
<gnuklear> *nods* I agree, but at the same time, myspace for a long period time claimed copyright to everything users posted...
<gnuklear> how many people cared?
<lucychili> this is an international treaty
<lucychili> they have steamrollered 10 countries who opposed it
<lucychili> and its coming from over there
<lucychili> the ngo's have been silenced in the process
<lucychili> get robin gross or someone to come and talk im sure she'd be amazing
<gnuklear> It's an issue that needs to be addressed. I absolutely agree.
<lucychili> an idea
<skyfaller> back
<gnuklear> All I'm saying is, I don't think it's the best people to introduce people to the free culture movement with...
<gnuklear> best issue*
* e1presidente has quit ()
<skyfaller> another thing that we've talked about a lot in the past is having canned events and publicity stunts that you can do to attract members
<lucychili> it means they want to make a non distributed internet with broadcast holders controlling the right to broadcast
<skyfaller> one thing you can do is write an op-ed in your student newspaper, if your newspaper happens to be one that students actually read
<skyfaller> stevemcl did a good one recently at
<paulproteus> It's reaching the one-hour mark.  Any more ideas for how national can help local chapters?
<paulproteus> If not, anything else to add to the agenda?
<lucychili> folks cound do mashups of the barenakedladies stuff, or work with a usa band to get the same kind of thing happening?
<skyfaller> OH!!
<skyfaller> I forgot the most important thing!
<schabot> I think an announcment on the blog of all the new chapters and a one line bio of the reps would be good
<skyfaller> has everyone seen ?
<gnuklear> yup
<skyfaller> this is something you should mention on your campuses, and maybe try to enter into
<paulproteus> skyfaller, Is there a flyer for that I can put up in my local Digital Media Center <>?
<skyfaller> paulproteus: no, and that is something we should remedy
* mllerustad puts it on her to-do list
<skyfaller> OK, I guess that's all I have for the meeting
<paulproteus> is the minutes.
<paulproteus> Any last items worth adding to the agenda?
<skyfaller> people who want to do work on the website / Democracy channel should come back on Weds
<paulproteus> If not, stick around anyway and we can all keep chattering!
<skyfaller> alright, I think I'm going to declare the meeting officially over