Archive talk:2005-12-18 board meeting

Chatlog of the Board meeting
[12/18/2005 7:17 PM] quick, before Elizabeth leaves, can we do board stuff for a couple minutes?

[12/18/2005 7:17 PM]  (especially since our finals count for 100% of our grades)

[12/18/2005 7:17 PM] (ouch, that hurts)

[12/18/2005 7:17 PM] Man...

[12/18/2005 7:17 PM] yeah, let's settle some basic issues while we have everyone here

[12/18/2005 7:17 PM] first, the question of Fred

[12/18/2005 7:17 PM] mecredis, you want to be on the board?

[12/18/2005 7:18 PM] yes

[12/18/2005 7:18 PM]  but you cant make it in jan right?

[12/18/2005 7:18 PM] I'm busy the 4th, 5th and 6th

[12/18/2005 7:18 PM] which is unfortunate

[12/18/2005 7:18 PM]  (not like we had asked you, so it's totally understandable)

[12/18/2005 7:19 PM] yeah, i didn't excatly choose to schedule over those dates

[12/18/2005 7:19 PM] you know the requirements? (expect at least a few hours each week thru may 2006)

[12/18/2005 7:19 PM]  i'm thinking it's way too late to change those dates now

[12/18/2005 7:19 PM] yeah

[12/18/2005 7:19 PM] I understand that

[12/18/2005 7:19 PM] it is too late to change them now

[12/18/2005 7:19 PM] why didn't you apply before the deadline?

[12/18/2005 7:20 PM] a number of reasons

[12/18/2005 7:20 PM] primarily

[12/18/2005 7:20 PM] I wasn't exactly in college

[12/18/2005 7:20 PM] and kind o fassumed that that would be a stipulation

[12/18/2005 7:20 PM] or rather criteria

[12/18/2005 7:20 PM] because there had been so much debate

[12/18/2005 7:21 PM] I suppose that by accepting you to the board, we would be making a policy decision of a sort, but I think it's one that we're OK with. It does mean that renaming the organization to "Students for Free Culture" may be inaccurate

[12/18/2005 7:21 PM] if we follow this course of action

[12/18/2005 7:21 PM] I'm a student of life, man

[12/18/2005 7:21 PM] heh

[12/18/2005 7:22 PM] Exactly!

[12/18/2005 7:22 PM] i don't think we necessarily always need to require all board members to be current students

[12/18/2005 7:22 PM] ok

[12/18/2005 7:22 PM] i think esp. recent alums are ok

[12/18/2005 7:22 PM] I think it's important that you are an alumn

[12/18/2005 7:22 PM] and I've applied back for NU

[12/18/2005 7:22 PM] NYU

[12/18/2005 7:22 PM]  (well fred is probably going to be a student again soon enough)

[12/18/2005 7:22 PM]  yeah

[12/18/2005 7:22 PM] so you may be in school again in the near future... which school again?

[12/18/2005 7:22 PM] tisch @ NYU

[12/18/2005 7:22 PM] for a program called ITP

[12/18/2005 7:22 PM] i don't think having board members who are not students would make having "students" in the name inaccurate

[12/18/2005 7:23 PM] are you working now?

[12/18/2005 7:23 PM] i'm doing plenty of freelance web design

[12/18/2005 7:23 PM] I suppose not, but at some point it would get a bit absurd

[12/18/2005 7:24 PM] which I can scale down

[12/18/2005 7:24 PM] anyway, the question of a name change can be tabled for the moment, we're talking about Fred

[12/18/2005 7:25 PM] * mecredis looks around

[12/18/2005 7:25 PM] how much you're doing isn't an issue as long as you have enough time to be on the board... we're all full-time students so it won't be more than a few hours a week

[12/18/2005 7:25 PM] i was just curious

[12/18/2005 7:25 PM] right

[12/18/2005 7:26 PM] so your chapter at NYU has been doing good stuff, before and after you went to school there

[12/18/2005 7:26 PM] but they also haven't been very vigilant about staying in contact with the national org

[12/18/2005 7:27 PM] right, we're comprised of full time students too

[12/18/2005 7:27 PM] so the good stuff

[12/18/2005 7:27 PM] has been taking priority

[12/18/2005 7:27 PM] but to the point of almost entirely ignoring FC.o?

[12/18/2005 7:28 PM] basically we had a limited time budget

[12/18/2005 7:28 PM] in general

[12/18/2005 7:28 PM] and we focused hard

[12/18/2005 7:28 PM] on organizing things

[12/18/2005 7:28 PM] asking people to commit

[12/18/2005 7:28 PM] to a conference call

[12/18/2005 7:28 PM] was just spending that budget

[12/18/2005 7:29 PM] I think the behavior of NYU isn't what's on the table, we're only concerned with whether Fred will make a good board member

[12/18/2005 7:29 PM] but you're now going to commit to working with the board on at least as frequent, if not more, a basis?

[12/18/2005 7:29 PM] obviously

[12/18/2005 7:29 PM]  plus there's a reason why people wouldn't come to calls, and that is something we need to address

[12/18/2005 7:29 PM] e-fc: Right, but the board members have to be present at meetings to address them

[12/18/2005 7:30 PM] the concern is whether Fred would show up to be a part of the process

[12/18/2005 7:30 PM] well I don't exactly

[12/18/2005 7:30 PM] have a history of falling through on actual obligations

[12/18/2005 7:30 PM] in the rest of my life

[12/18/2005 7:30 PM] if I may say so myself

[12/18/2005 7:31 PM]  (me too)

[12/18/2005 7:31 PM] not that you're the only one who didn't follow it, mecredis, but i remember when i joined being told that each chapter was supposed to send a representative each week

[12/18/2005 7:31 PM] but thats for you to figure out

[12/18/2005 7:31 PM] you want my resume?

[12/18/2005 7:32 PM] I'm willing to let Fred be on the board after he comes to a few meetings and participates on the nat'l level for a few weeks, but I'd like some evidence that he's committed before we accept him to the board. I don't think it's necessary to grill him on his past conduct, our interest is in the future

[12/18/2005 7:33 PM] And if he makes a commitment and sticks with it, then that's all that we need.

[12/18/2005 7:33 PM]  look guys, i think this is an issue the board and the core team needs to address-- the conference call thing-- but i don't think we should hold it against him in this process that he didn't come because something may have been wrong with the way the calls were held, etc.

[12/18/2005 7:33 PM] the point is not to put anyone on the spot, but i want to have a justification for adding a board member after the deadline... it's not a good precedent to set

[12/18/2005 7:33 PM]  right

[12/18/2005 7:33 PM] boards add memebers all the time

[12/18/2005 7:33 PM] Fred has been good at following through with tasks other than coming to meetings.

[12/18/2005 7:33 PM]  we can't hold it against him that he can't come to harvard either

[12/18/2005 7:33 PM]  even though he should come some other time

[12/18/2005 7:33 PM] e-fc: no, I agree with that

[12/18/2005 7:33 PM]  ha

[12/18/2005 7:33 PM] i can do conference calls

[12/18/2005 7:33 PM] during the day

[12/18/2005 7:33 PM] for the beginning of wednesday

[12/18/2005 7:34 PM] mecredis: only problem is we'd need a conference phone, we can't use my cellphone b/c it's daytime hours

[12/18/2005 7:34 PM] e-fc: you're basically saying if the rules aren't good, it's ok to break them... i don't think that's a good approach to take... the meetings were not good, but we tried to improve them and continue to do so

[12/18/2005 7:35 PM] i think we'd probably be better off just going with harvard as-is

[12/18/2005 7:35 PM]  what i'm saying is that we shouldn't hold it against him

[12/18/2005 7:35 PM] conference calls are not going to be a good solution from harvard... i don't know that anything else would be much better

[12/18/2005 7:35 PM] but it's not that big a deal to me

[12/18/2005 7:35 PM] sorry I am waaaaay late

[12/18/2005 7:35 PM] boards use CC calls a lot

[12/18/2005 7:35 PM] oops, freudian slip

[12/18/2005 7:36 PM]  hahaha

[12/18/2005 7:36 PM]  i was gonna say

[12/18/2005 7:36 PM] just came back christmas caroling

[12/18/2005 7:36 PM] i mean just at the harvard meeting

[12/18/2005 7:36 PM] <e-fc> well how about this, how about we try to touch base w/ fred w/ a few calls or chats during the weekend

[12/18/2005 7:36 PM] <Scudmissile> speaking of conference calls, we should reconsider the Gizmo project because i think they integrate with freeconference.com, so you can have a real number and call for free from your computer... though that doesn't solve the cell-phone problem

[12/18/2005 7:36 PM] that sounds fine to me

[12/18/2005 7:36 PM] e-fc: find us a conf phone, and I think we can include Fred at a few times

[12/18/2005 7:36 PM] <e-fc> and try to get his input on any major issues

[12/18/2005 7:37 PM] <e-fc> there's one at berkman

[12/18/2005 7:37 PM] yah, it shouldn't be that hard to locate one

[12/18/2005 7:37 PM] <e-fc> but even still, i mean i could call fred and let him know what's going on as well, or we could chat, etc

[12/18/2005 7:37 PM] but thats just my two cents

[12/18/2005 7:37 PM] but I don't think he should have any decision-making power until he's actually on the board, and I don't think he should be on the board until he's been around at the nat'l level for a few more weeks.

[12/18/2005 7:37 PM] *Scudmissile should probably bring up the Gizmo project on the coreteam mailing list sometime later

[12/18/2005 7:37 PM] we can figure something out to try to get input at harvard

[12/18/2005 7:38 PM] scudmissile: Heh, yeah...

[12/18/2005 7:38 PM] what are we arguing about?

[12/18/2005 7:38 PM] as well as possibly input from others

[12/18/2005 7:38 PM] poningru: it's a board meeting

[12/18/2005 7:38 PM] but remember the point of a physical meeting is for everyone to be in the same place at the same time, making it easier for everyone to know what's going on

[12/18/2005 7:38 PM] we're talking about whether to put Fred on the board, and/or when and how to do it

[12/18/2005 7:38 PM] Fine.

[12/18/2005 7:38 PM] oh sorry

[12/18/2005 7:38 PM] And all the people with decision-making power will be there.

[12/18/2005 7:38 PM] i'm not against trying to include people who aren't there, but i don't think it's going to yield a lot

[12/18/2005 7:39 PM] gavinb: Yes, for instance Fred couldn't see what we're drawing on the board or whatever

[12/18/2005 7:39 PM] *Talking* with others who may be interested is hardly a bad thing, if it can happen.

[12/18/2005 7:39 PM] <Scudmissile> another question from the peanut gallery: should i be updating the minutes to reflect the discussion here, or do they end up somewhere else?

[12/18/2005 7:39 PM] so skyfaller, would we set some date to decide whether to remove fred from his "probation"?

[12/18/2005 7:39 PM] Scudmissile: this is a separate meeting, starting when I said "let's take a few minutes for board stuff"

[12/18/2005 7:39 PM] scudmissile: http://wiki.freeculture.org/index.php/2005-12-18_board_meeting

[12/18/2005 7:39 PM] <Scudmissile> ok, thanks

[12/18/2005 7:39 PM] gavinb: Yes, I think that's good.

[12/18/2005 7:40 PM] e-fc and mllerustad, is that what we're doing?

[12/18/2005 7:40 PM] Sure.

[12/18/2005 7:40 PM] <e-fc> also, guys, should i try to reserve rooms at harvard?

[12/18/2005 7:40 PM] up to you, let's decide this first

[12/18/2005 7:40 PM] e-fc: I think having a room or two would be good

[12/18/2005 7:40 PM] but yes, let's finish this first

[12/18/2005 7:41 PM] <e-fc> ok well what is the question? should we accept fred outright? or conditionally? or not at all?

[12/18/2005 7:41 PM] <e-fc> and if conditionally, what are the conditions?

[12/18/2005 7:41 PM] I think we're all fine with Fred being on the board eventually

[12/18/2005 7:41 PM] <e-fc> haha. two rooms for four people?

[12/18/2005 7:41 PM] e-fc: Ok, fine, one room

[12/18/2005 7:41 PM] e-fc: One's the "time out" room. :)

[12/18/2005 7:42 PM] One room is for business, one room is for pleasure

[12/18/2005 7:42 PM] anyway, back to Fred...

[12/18/2005 7:42 PM] Anyway the proposal is having Fred on probation until a certain date, and then we'll decide whether to make him a full board member.

[12/18/2005 7:42 PM] I think that's fine.

[12/18/2005 7:42 PM] <e-fc> i'd say conditional acceptance

[12/18/2005 7:43 PM] is the same as Nelson's proposal or different?

[12/18/2005 7:43 PM] <e-fc> predicated upon participation in meetings, commitment to the board, etc

[12/18/2005 7:43 PM] Same.

[12/18/2005 7:43 PM] At least, as I understood it.

[12/18/2005 7:43 PM] so I propose that we accept Fred on the condition that he comes to the next 3 board meetings that are not Harvard (barring exceptional circumstances, e.g. medical emergencies). If he cannot make the times that we schedule, we move them to times that he says he can make.

[12/18/2005 7:43 PM] <e-fc> seems like it yeah

[12/18/2005 7:43 PM] ... or a certain date would be fine as well

[12/18/2005 7:44 PM] so wuld we set a "deadline" now? if so, when is it?

[12/18/2005 7:44 PM] <e-fc> end of jan?

[12/18/2005 7:44 PM] that seems reasonable

[12/18/2005 7:44 PM] <e-fc> wait, do you mean physical board meetings? no right?

[12/18/2005 7:44 PM] no, phone or IRC meetings

[12/18/2005 7:44 PM] not counting harvard

[12/18/2005 7:45 PM] <e-fc> ok nvm that's pretty much imposisble

[12/18/2005 7:45 PM] <e-fc> yeah

[12/18/2005 7:45 PM] <e-fc> ok

[12/18/2005 7:45 PM] end of Jan sounds good. I think the conditions should be that Fred comes to meetings and participates in stuff outside of meetings reasonably regularly.

[12/18/2005 7:45 PM] Like, it wouldn't be fine if he came to meetings and didn't do anything else.

[12/18/2005 7:45 PM] so when we make the blog post announcing the new board, what do we say?

[12/18/2005 7:45 PM] <e-fc> right, that's why i said participation in meetings AND commitment to baord

[12/18/2005 7:45 PM] e-fc: yes

[12/18/2005 7:46 PM] I'm going to say you don't have to worry about me participating less in outside stuff than meeting stuff

[12/18/2005 7:46 PM] mecredis: heh

[12/18/2005 7:46 PM] that we have 4 members? or 5? or 4.5?

[12/18/2005 7:46 PM] gavinb: I guess announce 4, and we can say that Fred has applied to be on the board and we're currently considering his application

[12/18/2005 7:46 PM] you don't even have to say that

[12/18/2005 7:46 PM] if and when it ocmes up

[12/18/2005 7:46 PM] just say I'm a new board member

[12/18/2005 7:46 PM] and thats it

[12/18/2005 7:46 PM] mecredis: yeah, I guess it's not necessary to talk about him until he's actually on the board

[12/18/2005 7:47 PM] ... erm, speaking about you in the 3rd person

[12/18/2005 7:47 PM] haha

[12/18/2005 7:47 PM] * mecredis talks about Nelson in the third person

[12/18/2005 7:47 PM] ok, so we'll announce the new board of 4 people

[12/18/2005 7:47 PM] <e-fc> ok guys i've really gotta go

[12/18/2005 7:47 PM] gavinb: just announce the current board and the fact that we're meeting at Harvard, and we'll announce Fred at the end of January if he's accepted

[12/18/2005 7:47 PM] but we should tell the core team the situation re: fred now

[12/18/2005 7:48 PM] e-fc: OK, thanks for coming

[12/18/2005 7:48 PM] and then announce fred if/when he's a member

[12/18/2005 7:48 PM] <e-fc> ok sounds good

[12/18/2005 7:48 PM] ok

[12/18/2005 7:48 PM] e-fc: one sec

[12/18/2005 7:48 PM] Bye, Elizabeth.

[12/18/2005 7:48 PM] e-fc: can you wait like 5 more mins?

[12/18/2005 7:48 PM] when are we meeting again?

[12/18/2005 7:48 PM] <e-fc> ok. for what?

[12/18/2005 7:48 PM] I think the only thing we need to resolve before Elizabeth leaves is when we meet next

[12/18/2005 7:48 PM] <e-fc> i can't do anything until thursday after 4:30

[12/18/2005 7:48 PM] Alright.

[12/18/2005 7:48 PM] i'm busy thursday

[12/18/2005 7:48 PM] how about thursday at 5 then?

[12/18/2005 7:48 PM] can we do friday?

[12/18/2005 7:49 PM] |<-- soufron has left freenode ("Legal Mavens sometimes need to sleep!")

[12/18/2005 7:49 PM] <e-fc> and friday i may be en route to ny

[12/18/2005 7:49 PM] so later friday?

[12/18/2005 7:49 PM] OK, Saturday?

[12/18/2005 7:49 PM] i don't want to do fridya night

[12/18/2005 7:49 PM] thats christmas eve

[12/18/2005 7:49 PM] <e-fc> that's christmas eve

[12/18/2005 7:49 PM] I usually reserve the holidays

[12/18/2005 7:49 PM] Saturday is Christmas Eve... no Sat or Sun

[12/18/2005 7:49 PM] for time with my family

[12/18/2005 7:49 PM] Monday evening?

[12/18/2005 7:50 PM] OK, Monday evening is our next meeting

[12/18/2005 7:50 PM] ok

[12/18/2005 7:50 PM] what? that sucks

[12/18/2005 7:50 PM] ... too far away?

[12/18/2005 7:50 PM] <e-fc> what sucks?

[12/18/2005 7:50 PM] the week after that is harvard!

[12/18/2005 7:50 PM] this may be a consideration

[12/18/2005 7:50 PM] oh, that's true

[12/18/2005 7:50 PM] we're only going to meet once or twice before then?

[12/18/2005 7:50 PM] that will need to be taken into account

[12/18/2005 7:50 PM] since it is holiday seasons

[12/18/2005 7:50 PM] we won't get anything accomplished if we don't start sooner

[12/18/2005 7:50 PM] even if we don't need to meet again, we do have to start working on the documents

[12/18/2005 7:50 PM] ok

[12/18/2005 7:51 PM] nothing's going to get done around christmas time

[12/18/2005 7:51 PM] otherwise they won't be anywhere near done by Harvard

[12/18/2005 7:51 PM] but we need to at least lay out the roadmap of what to get done

[12/18/2005 7:51 PM] i'm ok friday night

[12/18/2005 7:51 PM] <e-fc> i can do fri

[12/18/2005 7:51 PM] so we can start working on it

[12/18/2005 7:51 PM] <e-fc> i just dont know when yet

[12/18/2005 7:51 PM] i think let's just do thursday afternoon and exempt fred

[12/18/2005 7:51 PM] Friday, then?

[12/18/2005 7:51 PM] Ah.

[12/18/2005 7:51 PM] Thursday, exempt Fred

[12/18/2005 7:52 PM] wait

[12/18/2005 7:52 PM] OK, fine, exempt Fred

[12/18/2005 7:52 PM] then try to meet again early next week, maybe tuesday or wed

[12/18/2005 7:52 PM] <e-fc> friday is better for me

[12/18/2005 7:52 PM] <e-fc> i will be so delirious on thurs after 4:30

[12/18/2005 7:52 PM] last exam?

[12/18/2005 7:52 PM] e-fc: can you meet earlier in the day on Friday?

[12/18/2005 7:52 PM] I think Gavin is not thrilled about Friday night

[12/18/2005 7:53 PM] i don't want to do any later than like 5 pm fri

[12/18/2005 7:53 PM] <e-fc> right, understandably so

[12/18/2005 7:53 PM] e-fc: we can do a conf call if you're going to be in transit (and not driving yourself)

[12/18/2005 7:53 PM] <e-fc> ok can we say fri afternoon and then i'll email you when i know my plans?

[12/18/2005 7:53 PM] <e-fc> (i might fly)

[12/18/2005 7:53 PM] <e-fc> but yeah, otherwise, yeah

[12/18/2005 7:53 PM] oh

[12/18/2005 7:53 PM] skyfaller: no conf call during week (phone minutes)

[12/18/2005 7:53 PM] gavinb: oh, right, sorry

[12/18/2005 7:53 PM] OK, sometime on Friday before 5pm we will have an IRC chat

[12/18/2005 7:54 PM] if necessary, that will be the morning

[12/18/2005 7:54 PM] mecredis, can you do friday noon / afternoon?

[12/18/2005 7:54 PM] probably

[12/18/2005 7:54 PM] OK, we'll get a final answer from Fred when Elizabeth gives us an exact time

[12/18/2005 7:54 PM] ok... e-fc, try to get us your travel plans asap

[12/18/2005 7:55 PM] everybody, please try to look at the agenda for this meeting to get an idea of what we need to talk about

[12/18/2005 7:55 PM] we can discuss on email your thoughts

[12/18/2005 7:55 PM] http://wiki.freeculture.org/index.php/2005-12-18_board_meeting

[12/18/2005 7:55 PM] OK, sounds good

[12/18/2005 7:55 PM] I have to go now, as does everyone else I'm sure

[12/18/2005 7:55 PM] yes

[12/18/2005 7:55 PM] Yeah.

[12/18/2005 7:55 PM] thanks for sticking this out everybody

[12/18/2005 7:55 PM] <e-fc> ok guys really have to go now. i will try not to leave before 4 or 5pm on fri, so hopefully it should work

[12/18/2005 7:55 PM] we'll see everyone on Friday, sorry this dragged out

[12/18/2005 7:55 PM] <e-fc> want to see 3 provisionally?

[12/18/2005 7:55 PM] <e-fc> say

[12/18/2005 7:55 PM] e-fc: Good luck on tomorrow!

[12/18/2005 7:55 PM] <e-fc> shit

[12/18/2005 7:55 PM] <e-fc> i am losing it

[12/18/2005 7:56 PM] 3 sounds like a reasonable time

[12/18/2005 7:56 PM] we'll just try to keep fri day open... and wait to hear your plans

[12/18/2005 7:56 PM] I'm busy

[12/18/2005 7:56 PM] in the morning

[12/18/2005 7:56 PM] until noon

[12/18/2005 7:56 PM] Alright.

[12/18/2005 7:56 PM] mecredis: OK, it sounds like it should be fine

[12/18/2005 7:56 PM] <e-fc> yeah i'll be sleeping

[12/18/2005 7:56 PM] <e-fc> haha

[12/18/2005 7:56 PM] <e-fc> er..recovering

[12/18/2005 7:56 PM] Same thing.

[12/18/2005 7:56 PM] OK, fine, 3pm is fine, just finalize it ASAP

[12/18/2005 7:56 PM] <e-fc> k. bye

[12/18/2005 7:56 PM] i'm good with 3

[12/18/2005 7:56 PM] later all

[12/18/2005 7:57 PM] cheers, all... have a good week

[12/18/2005 7:57 PM] later

[12/18/2005 7:57 PM] And... I'm out.

[12/18/2005 7:57 PM] Scudmissile: thanks for taking minutes

[12/18/2005 7:57 PM] |<-- e-fc has left freenode

[12/18/2005 7:57 PM] you're our hero

[12/18/2005 7:57 PM] ok

[12/18/2005 7:57 PM] |<-- thessalylaforce has left freenode

[12/18/2005 7:57 PM] <--| mecredis has left #freeculture

[12/18/2005 7:57 PM] <Scudmissile> skyfaller: no problem

[12/18/2005 7:57 PM] scudmissile, can you post minutes  chat log?

[12/18/2005 7:57 PM] |<-- mllerustad has left freenode ("Chatzilla 0.9.68.5.1 [Firefox 1.5/undefined]")

[12/18/2005 7:57 PM] <Scudmissile> i have the .log file if you'd like that right now