Archive:2010-11-11/Log

[22:00:26] I'm going to call role, but also, I'll wait five minutes to start. [22:00:46] well, the main thing I wanted to accomplish was getting a blog up for the Fordham Law chapter... [22:01:08] Is there a bug for that, or is it on the agenda? [22:01:39] no, I can go make a bug or I can try to do it myself [22:02:00] You doing it yourself seems pretty reasonable, especially since that's pretty in line with the documentation-oriented meeting. [22:02:00] my plan was to try to do it myself by following the website documentation and complain to y'all if it failed ;-) [22:03:16] hi. im in a car but sort of here. real life is busy. [22:03:21] tonyb486: :D [22:03:38] Nice to have you here! I'll wait 90s more for others, just in case. [22:03:50] ill at least read [22:04:51] tonyb486: Before we start, can you answer this question for me? On a scale of "Sure, it's all obvious" and "what the heck, I don't even know the first thing", what do you know about the move to the new GANDI-hosted server? [22:05:13] the second one [22:05:15] WTF I just tried to reset my password on wpmu and it sent me a link to the main freeculture.org site [22:05:19] havent been following [22:05:24] tonyb486: Yeah, I myself hardly have been! [22:05:42] im at a drive thru now [22:05:42] Okay, I declare this meeting started! [22:05:51] Now that you're at the drive thru, we can really begin! [22:05:55] Agenda at http://wiki.freeculture.org/2010-11-11 [22:05:58] First off, who's here? [22:06:07] Im almost here [22:06:46] I'm sorta here [22:06:56] Okay, and I'm fairly here. [22:07:11] like i aaid, im in a car on my phone [22:07:13] 22:07: New topic: new/old server divide. [22:07:20] So there's this new server. [22:07:23] I think here's the run-down: [22:07:27] awesome [22:07:34] It's hosted by Gandi. It's a VM they donated to us. [22:08:12] I don't even remember what work it's doing for us, but we can SSH to it as lily.freeculture.org. [22:08:21] Are they aware of the load wr get [22:08:54] I think they can handle it, actually (-: [22:09:12] fair enough [22:09:13] The server does only have 768MB of RAM, but we can probably get that increased if we need. [22:09:17] -*- paulproteus is logged in [22:09:42] I way prefer having fc.o not hosted on my own, unreliable machine. [22:09:50] So I'm looking forward to this. [22:09:55] :) [22:10:05] From the looks of /etc/apache2/sites-available/ it seems the machine only hosts freemusic.freeculture.org [22:10:10] Which is one of the least useful things for it to host. [22:10:33] if i started an fc xhapter at my school we have an abundance of servers and bandwidth [22:10:37] one of the least useful things period *cough cough* [22:10:57] a rack of unused boxe [22:11:10] I think the limiting factor is maintenance time and good documentation, really, not servers and bandwidth. [22:11:13] Though that is exciting (-: [22:11:25] So I'm looking at the "freecult" account on it. The .ssh/authorized_keys file contains only me, which is pretty useless. [22:12:00] can you just copy mine over? [22:12:18] --> cco3 (~conley@c-69-181-138-209.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #freeculture [22:12:20] in 40mins i can give a better explanation [22:12:21] Hey cco3! [22:12:32] paulproteus: hey, what's up? [22:12:45] http://pastebin.com/hHm8wiHj # scrollback if you like [22:12:55] I miss jibot [22:13:04] cco3: Hi, I'm Nelson Pavlosky, what's your name? [22:13:24] AKA conley [22:13:26] skyfaller: I'm Conley [22:13:32] cco3 has less collisions [22:13:38] I see ^_^ [22:13:40] it's like hacker initials, but with a suffix [22:13:45] re: SSH keys: [22:13:55] I waffle back and forth. Should we just copy over all the keys that are on the current server? [22:14:04] Or should we take this time to prune the key list? [22:14:18] I guess we should copy all the keys over so that we can actually Get Stuff Done. [22:14:20] -*- paulproteus does that right now [22:14:22] we got a VM donated? That's cool [22:14:36] seems like a reasonable time to prune? when else are we going to prune? whatevs [22:14:49] getting things done is important too [22:14:57] We only have 15 min for this topic (-: [22:15:15] works for me [22:15:30] Okay, done! [22:16:22] skyfaller: Can you try 'ssh freecult@lily.freeculture.org' ? [22:17:14] hm... having trouble with my password [22:17:16] one sec [22:17:17] tonyb486: you too, if you have your keys! [22:17:23] skyfaller: You shouldn't need a password to the remote host. [22:17:26] oh [22:17:31] then something is wrong [22:18:02] on phone [22:18:16] diff key [22:18:49] Both of you, then, if you can give me an SSH public key, I'll add it. [22:19:01] I can't seem to find the page on the wiki that documents SSH public keys! [22:19:08] my public key was working on the old server :P [22:19:10] let me see [22:19:15] skyfaller: verify that please! [22:19:24] The old server is still 'freeculture.org' [22:19:41] So if you can SSH in to one, but not the other, then I copied something over wrong. Use the username 'freecult' in both instances. [22:20:00] one sec.... [22:20:02] yes [22:20:15] ssh freecult@freeculture.org works without a password prompt [22:20:35] ssh freecult@lily.freeculture.org prompts for a password [22:20:37] skyfaller: Can you give me a copy of ~/.ssh/id*.pub then? [22:21:12] one sec [22:21:30] I only have my phones key, which iznt too helpful. Tou dont have my key from the old box? [22:21:33] you [22:21:36] hm, I have rsa and dsa, maybe you only copied one? [22:21:49] skyfaller: Yeah, give me both in a pastebin [22:23:06] tonyb486: I copied freecult:.ssh/authorized_keys over; I'm not sure why it's not working for skyfaller [22:23:37] here's what I have: http://pastebin.ca/1988728 [22:23:52] ssh-rsa AAAAB3NzaC1yc2EAAAADAQABAAAAgQDTI2NwU+I/3LVpPPrPu9aICARn6Gw1ojISsTVeWsnyX5dbmemWTDaE7gACDWaYasY5wuTQwb9ehJ4gIkaQL8hpZmeYkWtqcQ0vekRagme4iNNZp5ndYcEeZqwoLGTRnz7VrpbyRijfQNW7jfY1HKif/QAWywdcyVuCaj7jZoKfCQ== tonybphone [22:24:20] Both of you are added now. Can you log in? [22:24:33] yup [22:24:34] works now [22:24:55] I have no idea how to get my phone's public key [22:25:07] You can create one in e.g. ConnectBot. [22:25:38] hm, maybe I'll go do that [22:25:49] so that I can admin things from my phone in an emergency [22:25:55] That sounds pretty useful! [22:26:34] my phones doesnt work [22:27:32] do we like RSA or DSA? [22:27:43] RSA, but it doesn't matter much. [22:27:51] 1024 bits? [22:27:56] Sure [22:29:21] I guess that's all for the new server. Basically, the "divide" is that it is just sitting there, serving out freemusic.freeculture.org, which isn't terribly useful. [22:29:31] ok, I made it, now how do I get it out of connectbot? >.< [22:29:51] copy public key [22:30:22] oh, thanks [22:30:23] Oh. well im using irc on connectbot ao its easy fir me [22:31:20] paulproteus: I just e-mailed my phone's public key to you, but now it occurs to me I could have added it myself at this point [22:31:24] almost home. :D [22:31:31] skyfaller: Ya, do add it yourself actually! (-: [22:31:54] skyfaller: That brings me to the next topic, really -- looking at the Fedora Infrastructure team [22:32:07] 22:32: Fedora Infrastructure-style documentation [22:32:11] <-- kernelhack (~jane@204.188.219.13) has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) [22:32:15] So, basically, I'm impressed by http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Infrastructure_SOPs [22:33:31] I suggest checking them out if possible... basically, they publish recipes for doing things, so that it's easy for their sysadmin group (some volunteers, like us, but with the addition of like 4 redhat.com paid people) [22:34:15] I think the "Standard Operating Procedure" documents started out intended to be recipes, but they've grown into general descriptions of the infrastructure -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DNS_Infrastructure_SOP is an example [22:34:52] I was thinking it might be nice to have two types of documentation documents: "Explainer"s that explain things generally, and "Recipe" documents that say how to do one of a few things [22:35:23] If we wanted to go that way, it would mean breaking up the current http://wiki.freeculture.org/Website_documentation page into a few smaller pages. [22:36:05] --> thisisparker_ (~parker@brln-4dbc4598.pool.mediaWays.net) has joined #freeculture [22:36:10] -*- paulproteus waves to thisisparker [22:36:13] + _ [22:36:41] What do you guys think about one big http://wiki.freeculture.org/Website_documentation page vs. more smaller, topic-focused pages? [22:36:43] that seems like a good approach [22:37:04] one big page means that it's hard to forget about a page's existence [22:37:13] but it's harder to find what you actually want on the page [22:37:19] Yeah, and I was thinking we can address that with a Category page. [22:37:32] Plus search. [22:37:47] you know search is inadequate if you don't know there is something to search for ;-) [22:37:58] but yes [22:37:59] Does the category idea address that? [22:38:16] yeah, that should address that if you remember to mention the existence of the category :) [22:38:22] Okay, cool (-: [22:39:05] I was thinking we could put a big box at the top of each one (through a wiki template), like how I do at http://openhatch.org/wiki/Bug_tracker_import_code/adding_a_bug_tracker [22:39:50] <-- thisisparker (~parker@brln-4dbc551b.pool.mediaWays.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) [22:39:59] tonyb486: your thoughts about one big page vs. a few that are more verbose? [22:40:12] hi, I just got home [22:40:20] Welcome home. (-: [22:40:31] that box is good, although it could be a little smaller [22:40:48] About my eariler mention of a server at my school - I admin a cluster there and we have a rack of old hardware (a retired cluster) (dual xeons) that I can use for school related things and there is a rack we have (hosting mirror.ams.sunysb.edu) that has room [22:41:07] I have inexplicably failed to correctly add my phone's ssh key, it's still prompting for my password [22:41:29] I have packing and stuff to do. >:| [22:41:38] stupid air travel [22:41:44] -*- paulproteus always leaves that to the last minute [22:41:54] Okay, well I guess we've decided that it's a good idea to break up the documentation into more pages. [22:42:03] indeed [22:42:06] I'll need help doing that, but that's not on the agenda for today (-: [22:42:13] (tonyb486, you think so too?) [22:42:21] sure, organization is good [22:42:33] more detail, less clutter [22:42:45] That's the mandate! [22:43:01] re: mirror.ams: I'm excited about hardware and hosting and bandwidth. [22:43:17] One thing I like about the Gandi setup is that we can hand out credentials to a bunch of people to reboot the machine from the gandi.net management console. [22:43:26] (if we get wedged for some reason) [22:43:45] My office is down the hall from the ams rack [22:44:04] Dude, you have an office already? [22:44:10] but need to get people involved in a chapter first [22:44:14] Yeah [22:44:20] Well, for my job. Its awesome. (Shared with friends) [22:44:23] (-: [22:44:36] Okay if we switch to the last discussion topic on the agenda, Puppet? [22:44:53] sure [22:44:56] 22:45 Puppet [22:45:12] So Puppet is a tool for "declarative" systems administration. [22:45:31] Normally, we do things in an "imperative" fashion -- we edit .ssh/authorized_keys files, or Apache config. [22:45:53] But then years later we can't figure out what services there are, or what they require. [22:45:56] (or weeks) [22:46:18] http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/526 is a decent intro [22:46:19] puppet is cool [22:46:24] * [22:46:59] Isnt pippet for multiple boxes? [22:47:24] It does some cool things, woah [22:47:36] It's designed for multiple boxes, but one thing I like about it is the idea that we could publish the puppet config file, and then accept patches for that from unauthorized people [22:47:47] Once we commit the puppet config patch, then the server does the templated task as root [22:48:07] http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/528 is part 2 [22:48:54] I haven't grokked what Puppet is yet [22:49:31] It lets you write a config file that is the master of all config files and system permissions and file contents (to the extent you want it to be) [22:50:29] I just filed a new bug, incidentally: https://bugs.launchpad.net/web/+bug/674354 [22:51:06] a master config file sounds pretty cool [22:51:57] I'm trying to figure out if it's worth the time to puppet-ize at the same time as documenting things. [22:52:05] I'm *inclined* to say yes, but I'm sure it'll slow things down. [22:52:28] I'll defer to your judgment in this matter, I don't understand the pros and cons well enough to have an opinion [22:52:49] I guess probably let's defer puppet until after we have better documentation. [22:53:20] Puppet seems good for reliability; if we had a puppet file now we'd be able to move to the new server in a snap [22:53:31] tonyb486: Yeah, exactly. [22:54:00] hm, attractive point [22:54:39] Maybe what I'll do for now is this: the things that I need to do as root, I'll try to make those puppet-able on the new server. [22:55:23] Package installs, for example. [22:56:17] er, lily.freeculture.org suddenly points at the old server for me [22:56:18] I have no idea why [22:56:57] that's frightening [22:57:04] Depends on the DNS server I use. [22:57:04] I cant ssh [22:57:10] Clearly we need a "DNS Explainer"... [22:57:24] I guess that's that for puppet; not quite a decision. [22:57:37] http://wiki.freeculture.org/2010-11-11 says we're supposed to fix bugs for the rest of the time, but I actually kind of want to just spend it writing documentation. [22:57:59] I'm really excited about the idea of more documentation. [22:59:28] I have bugs that prevent me from accomplishing things :P [22:59:48] skyfaller: http://wpmu.freeculture.org/wp-login.php?action=rp&key=h7Ch1yGdVfMX1sNMT5HC&login=skyfaller [22:59:50] Use that instead [23:00:05] that's not valid either [23:00:16] Well, it's not valid because I already did it :P [23:00:24] oh. [23:00:24] You should have email (-: [23:00:35] thanks :) [23:01:47] can you make me a "site admin"? [23:03:58] one sec! [23:05:20] skyfaller: Okay, what now? [23:05:36] cool [23:05:47] now I should be able to make a new blog [23:05:51] this is a little scary [23:06:01] Real ultimate power. [23:06:33] I think it's time I swallowed a frisbee [23:06:49] ? [23:07:29] ... nothing, that's one of the things he did at http://www.realultimatepower.net/ [23:07:36] Oh, I forgot that! (-: [23:09:53] Well I declare this meeting over, then. I admit, I'm more interested in writing documentation than in closing these bugs. [23:10:05] well, I think I made a new blog [23:10:10] Sweeeeeeeeeet.