Archive:2010-12-11/transcript

15:59 foooooooooclooockkk

15:59 hahaha

16:00 we still have a minute

16:00 ... no we don't

16:00 -!- benmoskowitz [~benmoskow@cpe-74-73-109-106.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #freeculture

16:00 meeting time!

16:00 wow

16:00 punctual

16:00 !

16:00 that was intense benmoskowitz

16:01 well, let's get this show on the road!

16:01 skyfaller: i know

16:01 http://wiki.freeculture.org/2010-12-11 is the wiki page for this meeting, featuring the Agenda

16:01 feel free to edit it mercilessly, be bold

16:01 I would also like to use some sort of Etherpad to take collaborative minutes

16:01 did you just add all that stuff 30 seconds ago?

16:01 -!- Hydroxide [~jimmy@lopsa/board/debian.developer.jimmy] has joined #freeculture

16:02 yes, sorry :)

16:02 I was editing it in my browser window and finally hit save

16:02 heyo

16:02 well, while I try to get piratepad to cooperate, shall we begin the introductions?

16:02 < Hydroxide> hello

16:03 I'm Nelson Pavlosky, I co-founded Students for Free Culture, and I'm currently a 3rd year law student at New York Law School.

16:04 let's take collaborative minutes here! http://ietherpad.com/IpspFqVSBy

16:04 I'm Tom, chief propagandist of the Cornell chapter. I'm a senior ergonomics major. My favorite color is pink.

16:04 I'm Alec Story, president of the Cornell chapter. I'm a Junior CS and Biology double major at Cornell.

16:05 hey

16:05 sry im late

16:05 < Hydroxide> I'm Jimmy Kaplowitz, treasurer and co-founder of the Fordham Law chapter. I'm a first-year evening student at Fordham Law School.

16:05 -!- mode/#freeculture [+o skyfaller] by ChanServ

16:05 I'm Adi Kamdar. I'm on the board of directors of SFC. I'm a junior history of science major at Yale. Founded the chapter here a few years ago, and it's going pretty strong.

16:05 -!- skyfaller changed the topic of #freeculture to: Students for Free Culture || http://freeculture.org || Website suggestions? - Report a bug at https://launchpad.net/web/ | Chapters meeting at 4 PM Eastern: http://wiki.freeculture.org/2010-12-11 | collaborative minutes here: http://ietherpad.com/IpspFqVSBy

16:06 I'm Joe Dempsey, president and co-founder of the Fordham Law Chapter. I'm in my final year of law school.

16:06 i'm Parker Phinney. On the board. Junior at Dartmouth. 1-person chapter.

16:06 (but going strong!)

16:06 doing lot's of opencourseware stuff

16:06 <@skyfaller> pyrak is a strong guy

16:06 (I'm gonna throw this out there: I may be slightly back and forth from this conversation, though I want to participate as much as possible. I just have a big final very soon, and need as much studying done by tomorrow...)

16:07 im amn't afraid of anything

16:07 <@skyfaller> no worries oo7akbnd :)

16:07 i also have to bow out before the hour is up because i have a flight to catch

16:07 <@skyfaller> no prob

16:07 i lost my wallet! i'm stressed

16:07 * pyrak shuts up

16:07 <@skyfaller> has everyone introduced themselves?

16:07 i am

16:07 ben moskowitz, co-founded berkeley with alex kozak

16:08 <@skyfaller> glad to have you here!

16:08 <@skyfaller> It appears our gender ratio is a bit imbalanced today, gentlemen

16:08 <@skyfaller> next time please bring some women and other genders

16:09 <@skyfaller> well, I guess that wraps up the introduction

16:09 <@skyfaller> according to my magical agenda, next is the conference!

16:09 <@skyfaller> anybody want to talk about the conference?

16:09 we have a mailing list where we do most of the chatter, link in a sec

16:09 How easy do you think couchsurfing there will be?

16:10 <@skyfaller> I just threw up the link at http://wiki.freeculture.org/2010-12-11#SFC_NYC_2011

16:10 relatively easy, I think. besides the fact that NYC has a lot of people, it has a lot of students who are usually willing to end a couch/floor

16:10 People can stay at my place ~40 minute train ride and ~5 minute walk from Grand Central

16:10 interesting, the wifi wants me to register my device to get http, even though im getting this irc chat for free.

16:10 <@skyfaller> I'm happy to offer my couch and floor

16:11 And my house has beds

16:11 ok, cool, so that's not a problem

16:11 so i cant access the mailing list url, but its easily accessible from conf11.freeculture.org

16:11 pyrak: ssh proxy?

16:12 oh, tlevine had a point that we shouldn't call it a listserv if it's hosted on mailman since listserv is a trademark

16:12 <@skyfaller> yeah, it sounds like anyone who wants to couch surf will be able to

16:12 <@skyfaller> alecstory: we love genericizing trademarks

16:12 (re the "conf 11 listserv" on the conf 11 website)

16:12 < Hydroxide> we can call it a mailing list anyway

16:12 <@skyfaller> I blow my nose with kleenex regardless of the brand

16:12 < Hydroxide> that's accurate and better

16:13 < Hydroxide> skyfaller: I still use tissues. though I don't use slide fasteners instead of zippers :)

16:13 <@skyfaller> hahaha

16:13 <@skyfaller> I guess the main thing is we need to make sure that everyone who wants a place to crash actually gets one

16:13 <@skyfaller> how was couchsurfing organized at previous conferences?

16:13 < Hydroxide> conf11 mailing list URL: http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/conf11

16:14 good question. benmoskowitz would know better...?

16:14 hmm so what are we doing at this conference...?

16:14 it's been very ad hoc

16:15 if there are any active couchsurfers

16:15 <@skyfaller> I think when I ran conferences we just called everyone together at the end of the first day and made sure everyone knew where they were sleeping that night :P

16:15 perhaps we start agroup at couchsurfing

16:15 eh, that'd probably work, except for people who need to arrive the previous day

16:15 ilike that idea!

16:15 <@skyfaller> alecstory: excellent point

16:15 we should solicit that as part of the registration system

16:15 <@skyfaller> agreed

16:15 do you need a couch? (not guaratneed)

16:15 can you lend a couch?

16:15 <@skyfaller> which reminds me that we should have a registration system

16:15 and try to match people

16:15 we can use wufoo

16:16 * skyfaller hates wufoo, but OK

16:16 or eventbrite, they do payment

16:16 does wufoo cost $?

16:16 i hate wufoo too

16:16 < Hydroxide> when I ran conferences, or helped to run conferences, it was debconf, which is way-hyper-well-organized even without paid staff, so not the best comparison :P

16:16 <@skyfaller> hahaha

16:16 wufoo does, if we use payment

16:16 eventbrite also sucks but is free

16:16 what did we use last time?

16:16 eventrbite

16:16 I imagine some cs person has written some wonderful algorithm for matching couch-surfers with couches at a conference

16:16 <@skyfaller> well, we could try to emulate that, how did Debconf work things?

16:17 n is small enough here to do that by hand, surely

16:17 < Hydroxide> skyfaller: first step: start 2 years in advance :P

16:17 < Hydroxide> (not joking)

16:17 <@skyfaller> hahahaha

16:17 <@skyfaller> oops

16:17 <@skyfaller> OK, maybe two conferences from now we can be that organized :P

16:17 < Hydroxide> skyfaller: also involved a lot of corporate sponsors funding housing and food and such. as I said, not the best comparison :)

16:17 <@skyfaller> well, we have some corporate sponsors sometimes too

16:17 <@skyfaller> but it's clearly not the same scale

16:17 < Hydroxide> cool. we can definitely talk, yeah

16:17 skyfaller: we do?

16:18 yeah

16:18 we're in talks right now with some folks

16:18 <@skyfaller> yeah, people like Red Hat sometimes chip in

16:18 For the last ergonomics conference I was at, students who wanted roommates filled out a form that put their names in a spreadsheet, and then the students emailed each other.

16:18 <@skyfaller> oo7akbnd: any word who with?

16:18 sent out feelers to google, mozilla, yale

16:18 < Hydroxide> cool

16:18 any other suggestions would be welcome

16:18 <@skyfaller> well, it's clear that no matter what registration technology we use, we should have registration system, and it should include a field indicating whether you need a place to crash

16:19 also, do we have a space for the conference yet?

16:19 we do

16:19 nyu

16:19 buildings already reserved

16:19 < Hydroxide> yay

16:19 cool, that's a nicer part of town than columbia

16:19 yep, plus a lot of surrounding restaurants and young people

16:20 <@skyfaller> wayyyyyyyyy back someone asked exactly what we will be doing at this conference

16:21 skyfaller is right

16:21 <@skyfaller> pyrak wanted the theme to be the bullet points of the Open University Campaign, and to plan speakers and BOF sessions around that

16:22 <@skyfaller> but there was some disagreement with that suggestion, and I'm not clear on what the alternatives are

16:22 define BOF please?

16:22 <@skyfaller> Birds Of a Feather

16:22 <@skyfaller> people who are interested in that subject get together and... self-organize around the topic?

16:22 < Hydroxide> informal gathering with maybe a bit of a initial presentation but more like a discussion than a talk

16:22 i think an idea was touch on Open University themes in one or two panels/sessions, but also touch on innovation and student activism (on a more meta level) in general

16:23 < Hydroxide> we could also do something(s) about net neutrality and freedom of information on the internet, maybe

16:23 we should also talk about things we need to lobby for: upcoming bills, etc.

16:24 alternatively, agaisnt

16:24 <@skyfaller> I think that if we don't do something covering Wikileaks and its associated issues, we may be ignoring something kind of important/exciting

16:24 <@skyfaller> I mean, this org was started after a leak of embarrassing information :)

16:24 I agree, although we'll have to make sure that it's current, and not based on the situation as it is today

16:25 < Hydroxide> ya

16:25 <@skyfaller> One thing I wanted to try to do was invite people from other student activist groups to get some cross-pollination of ideas for student activism

16:25 <@skyfaller> aw fudge, I need to respond to that UAEM guy I contacted, I've been busy studying

16:26 yep, UAEM would be great

16:26 i reached out to chris wong from your school (who organized Innovate/Activate, another conference with similar themes)

16:27 please define UAEM

16:27 <@skyfaller> oh, thank you for doing that, sorry I didn't get there first :)

16:27 universities allied for essential medicines

16:27 (i think)

16:27 <@skyfaller> yes

16:27 they promote universities opening up research on essential drugs

16:27 <@skyfaller> they do a lot of stuff related to drug patents

16:27 not locking them down with patents

16:27 ok, what I got first was Universidad Autónoma del Estado de México

16:27 hahah

16:27 <@skyfaller> lollerskates

16:28 <@skyfaller> well, OK, so we're going to have some official panels and speakers, and then some informal breakout groups, based on some topics

16:28 is there anything chapters can help with for the organization? people at our schools you'd like us to ask?

16:28 < Hydroxide> there's some great free software stuff in mexico, but yeah, probably beyond the scope of the 2011 conf :)

16:28 <@skyfaller> the classic thing to do is to have the first day be a conference, while the second day is an unconference

16:29 <@skyfaller> well, one thing we haven't covered yet is whether everyone will be able to physically get to the conference

16:29 <@skyfaller> it seems like most of the people in this channel are east coast and won't have much difficulty

16:29 <@skyfaller> but I know at least some of our chapters are not on the east coast, there was a guy from AZ who responded to the poll for setting up this meeting for instance

16:30 could we do a live webcast, and maybe some sort of way to ask questions remotely of speakers?

16:30 <@skyfaller> that's always a good plan

16:30 so that requires somebody to take video, and whatever software we'd need for the webcasting

16:30 <@skyfaller> we should also try to secure some travel funding, but it would be great of course if chapters could secure their own travel funding

16:31 is that obtainable?

16:31 it's something we're working on

16:31 < Hydroxide> alecstory: the software Debian uses for DebConf's live video streams is definitely available

16:31 the conference itself is incredibly low cost

16:31 < Hydroxide> it's been used and developed since 2006

16:31 close to free

16:31 90 percent money we raise is for travel

16:31 but we don't hav a lot of time to raise money

16:31 so if you have ideas, let's hear em

16:32 Hydroxide: wonderful, I hope that's easy to configure

16:32 <@skyfaller> benmoskowitz: well, we haven't discussed where we're holding the afterparty for the conference, have we? That could take a little money if we need to rent space

16:32 < Hydroxide> alecstory: doubtful :) http://dvswitch.alioth.debian.org/wiki/ is its website, and I know lots of people would be happy to help

16:33 <@skyfaller> I sent an e-mail to the conf11 list about party space and nobody responded

16:33 i nominate aditi's apartment

16:33 Hydroxide: we should do some dry runs of that before the conference. Also, do we have video cameras that will work?

16:33 <@skyfaller> hahaha

16:34 brb

16:34 <@skyfaller> I have a miniDV video camera I can lend to the cause if necessary

16:34 < Hydroxide> alecstory: no clue about that

16:34 <@skyfaller> with firewire it is a perfectly decent webcam

16:34 < Hydroxide> alecstory: probably either yes or we can borrow some from the local community

16:34 alecstory: This doesn't solve the video issue, but I have cross-platform software that'll play music in two places in near-perfect synchrony

16:35 <@skyfaller> hahaha

16:35 We could extend it to lights and whatnot

16:35 alecstory was apparently not talking about the party...

16:35 * Hydroxide points out that we're at :35 and should make sure we get through the agenda, if desired

16:35 <@skyfaller> well, the agenda is roughly in order of importance...

16:36 < Hydroxide> ok

16:36 <@skyfaller> so I'm not terribly concerned if we don't get all the way through

16:36 <@skyfaller> I want to make sure that the conference planning is going well before we move on

16:36 <@skyfaller> are there any pieces that the conference is missing? I think the lack of party space is key

16:37 <@skyfaller> ... pyrak? oo7akbnd?

16:37 hi, sorry.

16:37 lemme catch up, 2 seconds.

16:37 <@skyfaller> np

16:38 skyfaller: I really don't think the lack of party space is crucial to the conference...

16:38 so we're making headway on funding i think

16:38 <@skyfaller> clearly you do not place sufficient importance on partying ;-)

16:38 as far as i know, speakers are the most dire need right now

16:38 I still don't think we have a clear idea of the topics for the first day or the method of choosing speakers, &c.

16:39 <@skyfaller> OK, so we need to figure out what topics we want speakers on, i.e. what panels we want to have

16:39 <@skyfaller> and then maybe assign people to recruit speakers for each topic?

16:39 yeah

16:39 or, like, decide that we want to keep the speaking really light and give more time to unconference

16:39 but a more planned unconference

16:40 open education (OER and OA?), net neutrality, wikileaks, innovation/foss, copyright/creation/music, student activism

16:40 just in that the sessions and tracks are discussed more before hand

16:40 to throw some out...

16:40 <@skyfaller> I'm willing to try something more unconference-y, but I think that 50% unconference can be sufficient

16:40 how many hours of speaking do we plan?

16:41 (and how many speakers do we want that to equate to?)

16:41 Given only a day, I can't imagine inviting too many outside speakers. If we have a few invited keynote speakers, we might have a few hours left for 30 speakers in two tracks at most

16:42 so i'm thinking we should only have a few keynote speakers... two max (one opener and one closer?) or something

16:42 <@skyfaller> yeah, I definitely would prefer lots of panels

16:42 and the first day should largely be panels that feature a mix of students and others

16:42 <@skyfaller> and fewer keynote speakers

16:42 we should come up with time allotments then, so we can decide how many of what to recruit

16:42 why panels and not one-person talks?

16:43 <@skyfaller> tlevine: personally, b/c SFC is a big tent organization, I want to cover as much territory as possible... it can be difficult to capture the full range of free culture issues with individual speakers

16:44 skyfaller: surely panels have the same issue, or else they just ramble senselessly

16:44 < Hydroxide> depends on the moderator

16:44 < Hydroxide> and the panel composition

16:44 skyfaller: panels also take more time. instead of giving one hour to a many-person panel, we could give a few minutes each to many persons

16:45 <@skyfaller> sure, that's the idea behind lightning sessions, which we've attempted at at least one conference

16:45 <@skyfaller> lightning talks

16:45 i didn't mean lighting sessions really; i meant like 15 minutes each

16:45 <@skyfaller> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_Talk

16:45 < Hydroxide> tlevine: that seems qualitatively different than most of an hour on one topic, even at the pace of 15 minutes

16:45 also, doesn't have an entire day for unconference ensure coverage of what people are interested in?

16:46 <@skyfaller> I think that conversations can also be more interesting than planned talks

16:46 <@skyfaller> but most panels will include like 5 minutes of presentation for each panel member before the conversation begins

16:46 <@skyfaller> just so they have something to talk about

16:46 considering that i've never been to one of these before, i'm reluctant to make very many suggestions actually

16:46 < Hydroxide> full disclosure: neither have I :)

16:47 oh

16:47 <@skyfaller> hahaha

16:47 well then

16:47 I'm curious: how many of us could have some sort of interesting presentation ready or would could have something interesting to say on a panel by then?

16:47 <@skyfaller> although the lightning talks we tried weren't awful, that's something I'd tend to stick in the unconference portion

16:48 <@skyfaller> actually I would really like to present at this conference

16:48 <@skyfaller> but depending on the panels available I may not fit on one

16:49 I'm not really up on the major freedom-related happenings, actually, so the only thing that I could talk about that I think might interest everyone is a relationship between ergonomics, particularly usability, and freedom

16:49 okay guys, i gotta run

16:49 will be sure to read scrollback!

16:49 thanks!

16:49 <@skyfaller> we'll try to get good minutes for you pyrak

16:50 <@skyfaller> oh hey, we have like 10 minutes left before the hour mark

16:50 I still feel like we haven't even decided how long we want people to talk for. How can we decide how much of what without deciding that?

16:51 <@skyfaller> alright, I'm looking at a spreadsheet with a tentative schedule

16:51 <@skyfaller> it calls for panel 1: 9:30-10:50

16:51 <@skyfaller> panel 2: 11:00-12:20

16:51 <@skyfaller> 12:30-1:15 lunch

16:52 <@skyfaller> 1:30-2:30 keynote (35m) and Q/A (15m)

16:52 <@skyfaller> 2:45-4:15 panel 3

16:52 Put it on Google Docs or preferably some more free equivalent

16:52 <@skyfaller> 4:30-5:30 keynote(35m) and q&a(15m)

16:52 <@skyfaller> it's on google docs

16:52 send us the link

16:53 <@skyfaller> https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0ArFV1FoRMhuzdEVqdkZLbHVNMmtQcEdueUZMS1NLWmc&hl=en&authkey=CLaSkb0J

16:53 yeah, I'm sorry if I'm a little out of the loop on the conference planning, I didn't realize the mailing list existed

16:53 honestly, I think that schedule would be fine for me

16:53 <@skyfaller> that's what meetings like this are for :) unfortunately I bet lots of people don't realize this meeting exists :)

16:54 <@skyfaller> honestly I'd rather have another panel rather than 2 keynotes

16:54 <@skyfaller> but if star power will bring people to this conference, then whatever

16:55 skyfaller: you have Diaspora as a possible speaker; do you know where they're based?

16:55 <@skyfaller> yeah, they're in SF but they're originally from NYC

16:55 i tend to agree, skyfaller

16:55 but star power does count for something

16:55 plus helps with funding

16:55 getting them to come would be awesome :D

16:56 we already have one or two of them definitely coming

16:56 oh, that's terrific

16:56 and i believe the other two have given a tentative yes

16:56 heck, a panel with them would be pretty sweet, maybe include some of their competitors? Appleseed, gnu social?

16:56 <@skyfaller> I'd really like to nail down the themes of each panel

16:57 <@skyfaller> hahaha

16:57 heck, shoot zuckerberg an email :P

16:57 alecstory: ooh what if we include their competitors but don't tell them

16:57 <@skyfaller> LOL

16:57 <@skyfaller> I don't really want to turn this into the "open source social networking" conference, I'd rather have at least other relevant FOSS projects not necessarily in the social networking field

16:58 <@skyfaller> to try to broaden the nature of the panel

16:59 <@skyfaller> maybe we can have a panel structured around the Open University Campaign? http://wiki.freeculture.org/Open_University_Campaign#The_Wheeler_Declaration

16:59 but I think having a panel on that would be appropriate

16:59 that being open social networking

16:59 <@skyfaller> have one speaker for each of the 5 bullet points talk about that issue within the context of the university

16:59 <@skyfaller> and then converse about how to advance our agenda within universities

17:00 < Hydroxide> Sorry guys, I have to eat something and maybe get ready for my final exam review session on monday. it's been a good hour :) I hope the rest of the meeting goes well

17:00 <@skyfaller> alright, thanks for coming!

17:00 < Hydroxide> ttyl.

17:00 * Hydroxide &

17:00 <@skyfaller> we should probably wrap up this meeting right about now

17:00 can we take the planning to the email list?

17:01 I think this needs to get worked out soon

17:01 <@skyfaller> yeah, that sounds reasonable

17:03 <@skyfaller> alright, further discussion of the topics and speakers for the conference will continue on the mailing list, it seems like speakers are the biggest issue

17:03 <@skyfaller> minutes will appear on the wiki

17:04 can we also put the transcript up?

17:04 <@skyfaller> did you guys like EtherPad for collaborative minutes, by the way?

17:04 <@skyfaller> alecstory: can I put you in charge of putting the transcript up? :P

17:04 I can try

17:04 I wasn't logging it but I can scroll back :P

17:04 <@skyfaller> hahaha

17:04 <@skyfaller> just put a subpage on the wiki under the meeting page

17:04 -!- Hydroxide [~jimmy@lopsa/board/debian.developer.jimmy] has quit [Quit: switching to irc within my screen session]

17:05 how do I add a subpage?

17:05 <@skyfaller> IRC logs usually don't paste well

17:05 <@skyfaller> hm

17:05 ah, got it

17:06 -!- Hydroxide [~jimmy@lopsa/board/debian.developer.jimmy] has joined #freeculture

17:06 <@skyfaller> thanks for coming everyone!

17:06 <@skyfaller>