Archive:2007-07-15/log

Log for 2007-07-15 meeting

Log
21:03:44 	well, it's about time for the meeting to start, but I'm not seeing several people whom I am expecting, so I guess we'll wait a bit 21:03:53 	poningru: thx for info 21:03:57 *	hj (n=hj@189.152.136.238) has joined #freeculture 21:04:03 	poningru: doing 2 mtgs at once? ;) 21:04:17 	Well, hey now everybody now. 21:04:26 	:p 21:04:34 	hello 21:04:38 *	hj_ (n=hj@189.152.136.238) has joined #freeculture 21:04:40 	it is really sad that jibot is not with us.... 21:04:49 	hj_: having connection troubles? 21:04:52 *	bcb2114 (n=brendan@c-69-180-189-36.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) has joined #freeculture 21:05:01 *	hj (n=hj@189.152.136.238) has left #freeculture 21:05:02 	maybe we should consider getting our own IRC bot 21:05:06 	... 21:05:06 	hey, brendan ballou here 21:05:09 	howdy :) 21:05:15 	Hey Brendan. 21:05:16 	hi brendan 21:05:17 	ok sorry im here hello wberyone, have we started yet ? 21:05:20 	skyfaller, Yeah, maybe. 21:05:23 	I thought Nelson was the IRC bot 21:05:48 *	skyfaller makes obscure reference to Basshunter, no one gets it 21:06:10 	basshunter? 21:06:13 	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boten_Anna 21:06:29 	let's give people another 5-10 minutes to arrive 21:06:33 	skyfaller, I'd get it! 21:06:50 	skyfaller, If you have a sec, say what you think of https://bugs.launchpad.net/web/+bug/102351 21:07:02 *	gavinbaker gets it 21:07:12 	I feel like I should find a way for people to entertain themselves / each other while we're waiting for the meeting to start 21:07:24 	but sure, I'll go look at that bug paulproteus 21:07:30 	we could do some lame meeting-warm up 21:07:39 	like, "everybody say one embarassing thing about themselves" 21:07:40 	oooh, we can do an ice-breaker 21:07:42 	Quick, everyone play online Connect-4! 21:07:48 	let's play mafia! 21:08:06 	i think the best ice-breaker would be, "everybody start by taking a shot," but there are kids here. 21:08:07 	i know a few sweet improv games, none of which will work on irc :( 21:08:12 	Hi, I'm Nelson Pavlosky, and I'm responsible for starting this horrible mistake of an organization that we're all participating in. I think that's pretty embarrassing ;-) 21:08:37 	nile's here 21:08:42 	he will join in just a sec 21:08:55 	ok 21:09:16 	I mean, the obvious thing to do would be to state our name and school 21:09:19 *	paulproteus wonders if we'll get any Bostoners 21:09:29 	or I could state it for people, since I know everyone ;-) 21:10:17 	So I'm Nelson, formerly from Swarthmore College, and now preparing to attend my first year at George Mason Law 21:10:33 	I'm Asheesh, Master of the Web Team and other Fine Technical Arts. 21:10:34 	I'm Erin, from Stanford 21:10:36 	My name is Conley Owens. I'm a rising grad student studying CS (Artificial Intelligence and Bioinformatics) at Virginia Tech.  I have a degree in CS and a degree in math from the same university. 21:10:46 *	mecredis (n=fred@cpe-74-73-135-105.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #freeculture 21:10:47 	I'm Nick, currently at Swarthmore 21:10:50 	Sweet, hi mecredis. 21:10:54 	yzzha 21:10:59 	yarr 21:11:01 	oh wow, this works asynchronusly! 21:11:08 	okay! I'm here! 21:11:21 	so yeah 21:11:21 	It can be that easy if you skip the collision-avoidance protocol. 21:11:26 *	nile reads scrollback 21:11:36 	paulproteus: no wai 21:11:42 	Hi im hj (hector jaime) from Monterrey Tech, and its been two months since i last payed for information 21:11:43 	i'm parker, i'm from chadwick (a k-12 in southern california) 21:11:59 	hj_: awesome 21:12:10 	I'm Gavin, recent graduate from the University of Florida currently working for SPARC 21:12:13 	Hi I'm Eldo Varghese and cleaning his room 21:12:21 	Hello I am Brian Rowe a second year law student at Seattle University..One embaressing thing... I worked for Mircosoft before returning to law school. I currently run an orginization called Freedom for IP that works to elimate IP when it gets in the way of human rights 21:12:22 	hj_ = our first Mexican chapter, give him props 21:12:23 	poningru: i don't believe that last half. 21:12:24 	?whois Mecredis 21:12:30 	mecredis: jibot's awol 21:12:32 	no totally its true 21:12:42 	tis a pity 21:12:48 	Fred from NYC / NYU 21:12:50 	I'm also formerly a student (but never started a chapter) at Johns Hopkins University, and I'm also a software engineer now at Creative Commons. 21:12:52 	BrianRowe: ooh nice 21:13:00 	you also have an embarrasing last name ;p 21:13:13 	hj_: mucho gusto, bienvenidos ! 21:13:31 	timothy--grad student in school of information at university of michigan and creative commons intern this summer 21:13:32 	brendan ballou, columbia in new york 21:13:33 	skyfaller, is hj_ the guy I Skyped with around April 2005? 21:13:36 	Oh, hey tvol! 21:13:37 	bcb2114, whas up 21:13:37 	skyfaller, basshunter ftw 21:13:42 	i think i may be alone in saying i'm doing an undergrad in studio art 21:13:44 	paulproteus: almost certainly not 21:13:52 	hey paulproteus! 21:13:54 	skyfaller, Shucks. 21:13:54 	erin, awesome, where? 21:13:57 	didn't i just see you? 21:14:01 	at stanford 21:14:03 	erin, Thank good, we need more of you! 21:14:11 	goodness, that is. 21:14:14 	hey fred - I'm in nyc next week for a columbia fc meeting - are you around? 21:14:18 	bcb2114, indeed 21:14:18 	good is thankable too, I think 21:14:25 	i also think i may be the only girl so yes, you do :) 21:14:31 	btw: skyfaller: I realized I don't have any money, so I won't be dancing tonight 21:14:38 	erin: not true 21:14:39 	erin: there are a number of other females in FC.o, they're just not here right now 21:14:44 	you don't need money to dance 21:14:50 	ok good 21:15:02 	even the fascists can't ban dancing 21:15:17 	our female:male is much higher than the normal free software movement female:male 21:15:18 *	pyrak is probably the lowerclassman of the group :/ 21:15:26 	contra: but the quakers can! 21:15:28 	contra: If I want to dance with the live band down the street, I have to pay 21:15:29 	also the shakers 21:15:36 	the shakers didn't ban dancing 21:15:42 	they just danced very strangely 21:15:43 	shakers shake but the quakers dont quake 21:15:44 	Quakers just dance without music 21:15:46 	didn't they? they banned sex 21:15:51 	what about dice rolling? 21:15:52 	pwnt 21:15:53 	there are actually two shakers still alive 21:15:55 	for certain values of "sex" 21:15:55 	they're very old 21:16:00 	.... and we are OFF TOPIC 21:16:07 	did the meeting start? 21:16:12 	So, what the agenda for the meeting ? 21:16:13 	who's on first? 21:16:16 	I didn't see a gavel. 21:16:16 	contra: yes, we're introducing ourselves :) 21:16:17 	contra: I think we are still ice breaker 21:16:18 	I only have a bit of time 21:16:21 	GAVEL! 21:16:24 *	skyfaller pounds 21:16:26 	meanwhile, I'm Nile of Florida Free Culture and still without major. though I tell people I'm in Digital Arts and Sciences 21:16:28 	how do we go around a circle in IRC? 21:16:28 	aah not so loud 21:16:31 	alphabetically? 21:16:37 	that would have been logical 21:16:40 	but oh well 21:16:46 	Scudmissile: you here? 21:16:48 	Asynchronous is nice, though. 21:17:02 	I'm Ben. I'm from Swarthmore like the bot says. We're all dancing quakers at Swarthmore 21:17:14 	It's true, I've been there. 21:17:15 	the bot isn't here today, sadly 21:17:23 	yeah, what's first on the agenda? 21:17:31 	the agenda! http://wiki.freeculture.org/2007-07-15 21:17:53 	first item was updating the chapter roster 21:18:09 	I guess I kind of took care of a lot of that today while calling people to remind them of the meeting 21:18:10 	trimming the fat 21:19:01 	chapters that no longer exist include University of Oregon 21:19:09 	and Hampshire College 21:19:15 	:( 21:19:19 	we hardly knew ye 21:19:36 	more disturbing are the chapters that still theoretically exist 21:19:40 	but whom I could not reach 21:19:50 	zombie chapters 21:19:54 	how high were they? 21:19:55 	How might they theoretically exist? 21:19:58 	They update blogs, etc.? 21:19:58 *	BenK_HMC (n=ben@ip72-200-155-112.ri.ri.cox.net) has joined #freeculture 21:20:02 	i'll bring back hampshire if i end up going there :P 21:20:06 	well, their contact graduated, e.g. Emerson 21:20:13 	ok 21:20:18 	why don't we make a category for them 21:20:19 	paulproteus, by still being on the chapters list, of course. the computer tells me so. it must be true. =) 21:20:27 	yeah, we'll probably want to make categories for our chapters 21:20:30 	like "Once Active, Now Possibly Defunct due to Graduation, etc." 21:20:33 	e.g. "Active" and "Inactive" 21:20:42 	which brings me to my next point 21:21:00 	we're in the process of overhauling our chapter database 21:21:12 	paulproteus: any idea of an ETA? how complete is the code? 21:21:30 	skyfaller, I'm afraid I don't have an ETA, but I can try to have one mid this week. 21:21:34 	ok, sounds good 21:21:42 	once the chapters database is overhauled, we're going to have to ask all of our chapters to re-register 21:21:47 	hrmmm 21:21:50 	ok 21:21:56 	the old database is too crufty 21:21:57 	skyfaller, We don't *have* to, but I think it's a good thing to do. 21:22:01 	full of out of date info 21:22:04 	sure 21:22:08 *	paulproteus nods, Sure. 21:22:14 	and it'll also help us tell who is active and who isn't 21:22:21 	ok ok 21:22:29 	chapters that don't reregister after repeated e-mails, IMs, phone calls etc. can be considered dead 21:22:33 	you'll need to wait until the semester starts 21:22:39 	what about our luddite chapters who don't use the internet? =( 21:22:51 	so that'll help us tell for sure 21:22:57 	and you might be able to get graduating/inactive members to pass the baton to other students at the school 21:22:59 	nile: I'll call them :P 21:23:18 	Fear_of_C: you here? 21:23:20 	people who dont use internet? 21:23:21 	nile, those chapters are even more worrying 21:23:24 	that doesnt exist 21:23:26 	contra: yeah, that's something we need to formalize more 21:23:27 	yep, I'm here 21:23:35 	well hello then 21:23:39 	hi 21:23:41 	contra: we need to make sure that's part of running a chapter and finishing your year 21:23:51 	you should hand off officially at the end of the year 21:24:01 	btw: is this meeting restricted to chapter leaders? 21:24:05 	most "official" clubs at schools have processes for that 21:24:09 	conley: decidedly not
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 * BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun 21:24:23 2007

21:24:24 *	Now talking on #freeculture 21:24:24 *	Topic for #freeculture is: FreeCulture.org | student movement for free culture | http://freeculture.org/ | Bug tracker: https://launchpad.net/web/+bugs | New Web site just launched, check it out! | Chapters meeting Sunday, 15 July at 9 pm EDT (now) | Agenda/minutes at: http://wiki.freeculture.org/2007-07-15 21:24:24 *	Topic for #freeculture set by skyfaller at Sun 21:02:20 2007 21:24:24 -NickServ-	Password accepted - you are now recognized 21:24:24 *	services. sets mode +e skyfaller 21:24:24 *	NickServ set your hostname to "wikipedia/Skyfaller" 21:24:28 	oops, closed the window, sorry 21:24:45 	anyway 21:24:55 *	tannewt (n=scott@gentoo/developer/tannewt) has joined #freeculture 21:25:01 	Hey tannewt! 21:25:08 *	gavinbaker eats a sandwich & reads scrollback 21:25:16 	gavinbaker, yum 21:25:17 	tannewt: howdy! are you bringing Free Culture to Seattle along with BrianRowe? ;-) 21:25:37 	skyfaller, not really, have other things 21:25:48 	well, that's another chapter we can scratch I guess 21:25:51 	moving on! 21:26:02 	Seattle should have a chapter. I mean, it's Seattle! 21:26:05 	oh well 21:26:18 	We have one chapter 21:26:21 	hrm 21:26:26 	Stanford didn't and lessig is here 21:26:31 	you just can't predict 21:26:41 	erin, good point 21:26:46 *	nile scratches chin 21:27:01 *	mllerustad (n=mllerust@c-69-143-179-58.hsd1.va.comcast.net) has joined #freeculture 21:27:01 *	chz (n=chz@cpe-024-162-252-149.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #freeculture 21:27:07 	so one thing I wanted from people was to know whether anybody is graduating 21:27:09 	skyfaller, of course if the campus is up in arms about the RIAA next fall I might try and kickstart the group 21:27:11 *	ma9us (n=limehat@cpe-066-057-241-053.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #freeculture 21:27:13 	and passing on the torch 21:27:20 	chz and ma9us are both my minions 21:27:25 	lol 21:27:31 	both undergrad CS majors, seniors 21:27:32 	Hey 21:27:37 	conley, Good, the world needs more Free Culture Minions. 21:27:37 	damn I want minions 21:27:39 	I'm guessing that nobody in this channel falls into that category, but feel free to prove me wrong 21:27:43 	hooray for minions 21:27:44 	we should get one going at UW maybe through thier informatics program or the MLIS program... 21:27:52 	Im allready out of school, so im looking to "the chosen one" probably it will happen un january 21:28:00 	BrianRowe: awesome 21:28:31 	all my team is about to graduate, or graduated... we still need fresh blood 21:28:43 	hj_: literally nobody is left? well, that's interesting 21:28:49 	i hope with this semesters "big" events we can attract people 21:28:58 	oh, about to graduate 21:29:02 	well they are, but none of the can take care of the chapter 21:29:09 	everyone is full of things to do... 21:29:20 	working, responsabilities with other groups etc... 21:29:22 	hj_: do you know the cc | mx guys? 21:29:34 	nope, i believe they are at Mexico city right ? 21:29:40 	hj_: i think so, not sure 21:29:48 	they like mezcal, if you throw a party probably they will come 21:29:55 	mecredis: is that not true? 21:29:55 <hj_>	i mean i can keep taking care of the chapter, but it think a student should be in charge 21:30:04 	hj_, Yeah, I know what you mean... 21:30:11 	Not from personal experience but from others'. 21:30:18 	gavinbaker, cc mexcio? 21:30:22 	huh? 21:30:34 	you know, leon and his friend. rio... the mezcal... 21:30:38 	mecredis, http://creativecommons.org.mx/ 21:30:40 	</OT> 21:30:42 	Also, the Mezcal. 21:30:54 	we should have various degrees of activity, i think just having a semi-active mailing list and occasional exchanging of ideas is "active" 21:30:55 	right, but why am I being asked? 21:31:26 	mecredis: you were in rio 21:31:28 	hj_: well, if you want to hand off the FC contact to a student, if you find someone, just tell us 21:31:39 	so we know to update the chapter contact info etc. 21:31:52 <hj_>	ok its still not a problem, but next year ill be running three companies, so i might need help 21:32:16 	oh, not sure, my memory is faint re: CC MX 21:32:16 	I also know for instance that Erin Watson from UNC has graduated, and she gave me the name of the new contact Catherine but I haven't had a chance to talk to her yet 21:32:21 <hj_>	im sure that by january we will find a great team of fresh blood to take over 21:32:33 	mecredis: too much alcohol? 21:32:34 *	Yaco2 (n=Yaco2@201.255.250.190) has joined #freeculture 21:32:35 	;P 21:32:38 	over-organizing cannot make up for lack of enthusiastic members 21:32:38 	we need to have a better process for bringing new chapter members into the national organization 21:32:54 	OK, before we move on to the next subject 21:32:56 	skyfaller: give them pidgin and point em toward irc? 21:33:02 	skyfaller: what's the timeline for re-registering? 21:33:05 	I think a social structure needs to exist 21:33:33 	contra, totally with you on that 21:33:35 	Re-registering: we need to get our chapters re-registered before the semester starts 21:33:44 	so that we can be sure that we have up-to-date shipping info if nothing else 21:33:54 	will the website be ready before then? 21:33:55 <Fear_of_C>	we are shipping things at the start of the semester? 21:33:59 	and we can ship care packages to all the chapters as usual 21:34:17 	ok guys 21:34:19 	I have to split 21:34:23 	cya 21:34:23 	anyone interested in free culture 21:34:25 	and running a chapter 21:34:26 	is the stuff you ship free for us (as in free beer) 21:34:27 	poningru: whether or not the new chapters database is ready, we'll have to go ahead... if the new database isn't ready in time, we'll just hand-hack the old database to work for one more semseter 21:34:29 	can e-mail me 21:34:34 	or if you're in NYC 21:34:36 *	nile waves to mecredis 21:34:38 	just drop by 21:34:41 	dont drink too much 21:34:46 	skyfaller: hmm k 21:34:48 	fcb @ fredbenenson.com / 917 862 7819 21:34:48 	ciao 21:34:55 	conley: yeah, we'll be shipping you stuff from our friends like EFF, CC, and PK, as well as some of our own stuff hopefully, like t-shirts 21:35:02 	w00t 21:35:06 	sweet! 21:35:11 *	mecredis (n=fred@cpe-74-73-135-105.nyc.res.rr.com) has left #freeculture ("Leaving") 21:35:15 	FreeCulture van that goes campus-to-campus giving out free beer and free software. 21:35:15 	maybe this time we wont give it all away at the first meeting 21:35:20 *	poningru glares at gavinbaker 21:35:24 	contra: Free Beer, even 21:35:25 <BrianRowe>	where do we need to add our mailing adress? 21:35:35 	poningru: s/first/a year later 21:35:48 	BrianRowe: we'll tell you over the chapters mailing list when the re-registering site is ready 21:35:58 	so this meeting was partially a test of that mailing list :P 21:35:58 <BrianRowe>	ok 21:35:59 	the best part is we get Nelson to dress up in an obnoxious outfit and have a megaphone shouting about "opening your source" 21:36:15 	if the re-registration site isn't ready in 30 days, we're tar-and-fearing skyfaller (and maybe paulproteus too) 21:36:22 	:P thanks, Gavin 21:36:24 	lol 21:36:34 	and that's about all I have to say about the chapters headcount 21:36:35 	s/fear/feather 21:36:41 	wait 21:36:46 	if you want to help get the new database up quicker, talk to paulproteus ! 21:36:48 	before we do anything else, can someone take minutes? 21:37:11 	â€šÃ„Î© 21:37:12 	wow. I didn't get anything from the chapters mailing list. I guess I'm not registered for it, after all. 21:37:14 	I nominate contra. 21:37:18 *	poningru pastes his logs 21:37:24 	skyfaller, i'll write up minutes from the logs. 21:37:33 	Sounds good to me. 21:37:44 	ha, if I do minutes I'm not mentioning any of my comments 21:38:03 	<3 gavinbaker 21:38:08 *	gavinbaker is mentioning contra's comments 21:38:11 *	erinR (i=ab40f482@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-1a6f2f9f84f07a86) has joined #freeculture 21:38:23 	erinR, are you erin ? 21:38:25 	paulproteus: incidentally, if we could get a bot to automatically log the channel, at least during meetings, that would be good 21:38:26 *	nile blinks 21:38:27 <erinR>	yes 21:38:32 *	cameronparkins (n=cameronp@adsl-69-232-233-219.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) has joined #freeculture 21:38:33 	welcome back :) 21:38:35 	skyfaller: you sure you want this to be public? 21:38:37 <erinR>	having weird problems with firefox 21:38:38 	Sweet, hi cameronparkins. 21:38:38 <erinR>	thanks 21:38:38 	heh, guess that web portal isn't as reliable as we hoped 21:38:43 	hey all - sorry im so late 21:38:47 *	paulproteus gets all eye-shifty 21:38:48 	gavinbaker: at least during meetings, yes 21:38:55 	well, I guess the log could be private 21:39:06 	but anyway 21:39:08 	skyfaller: we all log our irc channels 21:39:10 *	gavinbaker forgot to include a ;) in his last comment 21:39:24 	so I can just upload it somewhere 21:39:35 	poningru: yes, but it should be online somewhere where the person taking minutes can get at them... and it shouldn't have to be done manually by you 21:39:37 	erinR, so am I! omgtwins! 21:39:41 	but yeah 21:39:44 	moving on! 21:39:54 	so this brings us to how we can help chapters 21:40:01 	I plan on my posthumous reputation being built entirely from IRC logs and witty IM conversations. Oh and facebook profiles. 21:40:03 	see the agenda at http://wiki.freeculture.org/2007-07-15 if you're arriving late 21:40:40 	So as that page says, we can offer various webhosting things 21:40:49 	like a blog eventually? ;-) 21:40:57 	if you have your own hosting somewhere, we can point a subdomain at it 21:41:14 <hj_>	we could also have a Wordpress MU setup... 21:41:14 	we currently offer mailing lists and wikis to our chapters 21:41:29 	hj_: paulproteus is working on that iirc 21:41:33 	hj_: yes, in the near future we also hope to offer blogs 21:41:49 	err s/paulproteus/web team 21:41:57 	poningru: lulz 21:42:09 	erinR asked whether we could just give her access to the server so she could install stuff herself, and the answer is a qualified yes! 21:42:24 	can you just give us ftp and a mysql database? 21:42:33 	and we can do our own blog setups? 21:42:45 	conley: we can offer things like that, yes, but let me finish explaining 21:42:52 *	barney (i=fimns328@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.net/x-8409f4a2ab1cfd2d) has joined #freeculture 21:42:55 	sorry 21:43:03 	friendly announcement: to follow along in the agenda, read along @ http://wiki.freeculture.org/2007-07-15 21:43:18 	it's a qualified yes because we wanted to avoid having 100 different Wordpress installations, all in various states of decay 21:43:42 <Fear_of_C>	also, it might be helpful to standardize things if we are using openID 21:43:58 	what we want to be able to offer is a single installation, which can serve up multiple websites 21:44:06 	we are already doing that with Mediawiki 21:44:18 	we can create a wiki for your chapter in no time at all 21:44:37 	and it is run from a single Mediawiki installation, so that when we update the software, the software for every chapter wiki gets updated at the same time 21:44:39 	FC.o could, in theory, create little disk "accounts" (partitions) for each chapter to play with 21:44:49 	but it seems a lot more reasonable to have one install of WordPress than 30 21:44:50 	or just give them quotas 21:45:07 	especially because then we can make sure they're all maintained / secure / etc. 21:45:08 	err I was thinking quotas for ftp 21:45:13 	you also benefit from improvements we make to the Mediawiki install, like updating the anti-spam measures 21:45:21 	i think we can compromise between both standardization and having a sandbox to play in
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 * BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun 21:45:34 2007

21:45:34 *	Now talking on #freeculture 21:45:34 *	Topic for #freeculture is: FreeCulture.org | student movement for free culture | http://freeculture.org/ | Bug tracker: https://launchpad.net/web/+bugs | New Web site just launched, check it out! | Chapters meeting Sunday, 15 July at 9 pm EDT (now) | Agenda/minutes at: http://wiki.freeculture.org/2007-07-15 21:45:34 *	Topic for #freeculture set by skyfaller at Sun 21:02:20 2007 21:45:36 *	poningru rofl 21:45:38 	s 21:45:46 	I keep closing the @#$%ing window 21:45:53 <Fear_of_C>	i also think that most chapters will get bored with playing around at some point, and it will be good to only have to maintain the blogs once 21:46:09 	yeah, I think that it may be more beneficial to have our hackers working on interesting stuff 21:46:14 	instead of installing Wordpress 100 times 21:46:14 	the status quo is, each chapter can do whatever they want -- they just have to host it themselves 21:46:16 <Fear_of_C>	though i like the idea of chopping up the extra space for individual accounts 21:46:25 	of course anyone is welcome to self-host whatever they want, forever 21:46:33 <Fear_of_C>	in case some chapter has some special additions they want to make 21:46:35 *	nile nails skyfaller's IRC window to his screen so he stops closing it 21:46:54 	We definitely give people shell accounts on our server, and give them sandboxes to play with. But when they play, I think it would be better for them to play with interesting stuff like Columbia's Tor project instead of the basics 21:46:59 	like a wiki or a blog 21:47:04 <Fear_of_C>	agreed 21:47:09 	here here 21:47:12 	skyfaller: i don't see why we should prevent people from playing with the basics, if they want 21:47:19 	unless there are security / manageability concerns 21:47:22 	which i think there are 21:47:32 	gavinbaker: well, it's also just a massive duplication of effort 21:47:35 <Fear_of_C>	people still could 21:47:41 *	mark007 kicks the door in and takes a seat 21:47:42 <Fear_of_C>	they just shouldn't have to 21:47:43 	but to ban it because "we don't want you to waste your time" is pretty nanny state-ish 21:47:52 	and I think it's better for people to be free to work on their chapter instead of having to sweat this boring tech stuff 21:47:55 	we're not goingn to ban it 21:47:56 *	gavinbaker hands mark007 a cold cider | welcome, friend 21:47:58 	*going to 21:48:25 	skyfaller: we already said FC.o would host it if the chapters wanted. the question is, what if the chapter doesn't want 21:48:29 	but we are going to offer these web services and encourage people to contribute to the central code instead of everyone installing their own copies of the same software 21:48:30 *	poningru takes the cold cider from mark007 21:48:33 	gavinbaker: then that's fine 21:48:33 	dude he's below 21 21:48:42 	we'll continue to offer subdomain forwarding as we do today 21:48:46 	I wasn't going to report it if you weren't... 21:48:56 	skyfaller gavinbaker: i think we can give them chroot env that wont mess with the rest of the stuff 21:48:57 	Guys, there's not much to say about web hosting; let's move on. The summary is, If you ask for something, you'll get it, perhaps also with a lecture. 21:49:02 	skyfaller: you seemed to imply that we wouldn't be offering webspace for people to poke around with their own blog, etc. is that accurate? 21:49:12 	poningru: on the internet, no one knows you're <21 21:49:14 	gavinbaker: no, you missed the point 21:49:17 	paulproteus++ 21:49:28 	ok guys what paulproteus said 21:49:30 	on the internet, no one knows you're only skimming the IRC backlog 21:49:31 	sersiouly. 21:49:32 *	BenK_HMC has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 21:49:42 	gavinbaker: I said that they could but I'd prefer that they didn't spend their time installing a wiki and blog which we could do for them in two seconds 21:49:54 	and instead work on more interesting software projects and creating something new 21:50:03 	but if they want to install their own blog 21:50:06 	nobody will stop them 21:50:08 	then we're all on the same page i think 21:50:11 	skyfaller, for the record that's not what you said, but if that's what you meant, cool. i just wanted to be clear. any other questions? 21:50:25 	... 21:50:29 	p.s. he who takes the minutes writes the record :D 21:50:37 	gavinbaker: you're kind of scary, dude 21:50:40 	ok, moving on 21:50:42 <Fear_of_C>	is there a way that we can create wordpress "profiles"? 21:50:54 <Fear_of_C>	st. the swarthmore one can say swarthmore, etc. 21:50:59 <Fear_of_C>	i assume there is 21:51:03 	Fear_of_C: yes MU 21:51:05 	Fear_of_C: yes yes 21:51:07 	and its already done 21:51:21 	Fear_of_C, contra, erinR: if you want to talk webspace, stay after the meeting 21:51:28 	and paulproteus and I and others will help you out 21:51:39 	conley might be included in that too -- is that right? 21:51:40 <erinR>	ok sounds good 21:51:43 <Fear_of_C>	ok 21:51:45 	yah 21:51:59 	maybe 21:52:03 	so we also offer shipping of care packages, as mentioned 21:52:16 	I mean yea, I definitly want webspace 21:52:30 	conley: ok, hang out after then 21:52:35 	conley: you can have whatever kind of webspace you want, ignore the above discussion, we'll talk about it afterwards 21:52:35 	ok 21:53:04 	so there are various issues with the care packages 21:53:17 	we can ship plenty of stuff from friendly organizations as always 21:53:32 	but I think it's important that we be able to offer some of our own stuff 21:53:37 	e.g. pamphlets, t-shirts 21:53:49 	today is not the day to discuss that in detail 21:53:58 	but we will need volunteers to help produce this stuff 21:54:00 	shop.freeculture.org! 21:54:10 	;) 21:54:15 	"Free as in speech, but not as in beer" 21:54:19 <Fear_of_C>	what type of production? graphic design, stuffing boxes, etc.? 21:54:20 	pyrak: yeah, we could use your help developing the website end of that actually, but we'll cover that another time 21:54:30 	roger roger 21:54:39 	Fear_of_C: all of the above 21:55:03 	... and gavinbaker is playing OpenQuake 21:55:12 	i'll enlist some friends to throw out some graphical ideas 21:55:14 	I think it'd be cooler to give people computer-processable designs and instructions on how to print their own stuff in a nice way 21:55:21 	contra: we can do that too 21:55:28 	contra++ 21:55:31 	skyfaller: nile and I have been thinking about trying to make shirts 21:55:37 	I think it's more reasonable, considering we don't have money or people to stuff boxes 21:55:43 	but if you're just starting a new chapter, you may not have an opportunity to duplicate things on a massive scale before you have any other members 21:55:52 	or the budget before you have a club 21:55:59 	hopefully new clubs can still print flyers, etc. 21:56:06 <Fear_of_C>	that which can be printed from a standard computer can be sent over the internet, but there's some stuff that's harder 21:56:14 	we want to lower the barrier to entry for people as much as possible 21:56:19 	Fear_of_C: I mean give instructions for how/where to silkscreen t-shirts, etc. 21:56:21 <Fear_of_C>	things like posters and t-shirts can be really difficult/expensive for small orgs to get 21:56:23 	the goal is to make it dead easy to start a chapter 21:56:33 	yeah, well FCorg is a small organization 21:56:41 	how can we afford to do this on a large scale? 21:56:45 <Fear_of_C>	i mean, SWIL (a club at our school) went through hell trying to print like 3 posters 21:56:50 	contra: we'll get to that later in this meeting 21:56:54 <Fear_of_C>	if someone else in the national org can print them cheap 21:57:03 <Fear_of_C>	then they should and distribute to the others 21:57:06 	contra: the traditional way is that I spend my personal time to assemble everything in my dorm and ship it to people :P 21:57:15 	Fear_of_C: then that's the kind of thing that can be done with a strong mailing list/horizontal communication. 21:57:16 	skyfaller, i read the wiki entry about this so i know the deficult it entails, but i think we still need a bubbly, inviting, graphical explanation of "wtf is free culture"? 21:57:17 	i feel like FC.o should be "big" enough to print and distribute T-shirts and posters for its chapters. but that's later in the agenda 21:57:20 	it's still going to be decentralized 21:57:49 	contra: we'll return to that in a few minutes 21:57:49 	gavinbaker: I'm not saying it SHOULDN'T be big enough, it just isn't able to do this right now efficiently (e.g., can guarantee I'll get a box of free t-shirts) 21:58:04 	oki 21:58:07 	contra: it's actually worked pretty well a few times. well, it's worked ok 21:58:13 	the point is that we have done shipping several times in the past 21:58:15 	the shirts did get there eventually 21:58:18 <Fear_of_C>	but it has much more ability to do that than most of the chapters do invidually 21:58:20 	it's one of the few things we've done every year 21:58:27 	and there's a box of them now... in my bedroom, actually 21:58:32 	gavinbaker: then sign Swat up for some free swag to give out :) 21:58:32 <Fear_of_C>	because it is still an order of magnitude larger than any of the chapters 21:58:47 	Fear_of_C: define "larger," but sure 21:58:59 	skyfaller: do we have enough shirts right now for all the chapters? 21:59:02 <Fear_of_C>	and anyway, the admin stuff should be centralized, i think, unless chapters opt out of such coordination 21:59:05 	and are we missing any sizes or anything like that? 21:59:12 	Fear_of_C: let's talk about this a bit later :) 21:59:20 	yes can we get some large shirts please? 21:59:27 	we are missing sizes, we'll have to print more 21:59:32 	we are almost out of large and have no XL 21:59:36 	aww, poningru, you look so cute in the one you have! 21:59:43 	my beer belly does not like the tiny shirt 21:59:48 *	poningru beats up gavinbaker 21:59:49 *	nile chuckles 21:59:51 	i'm wearing mine now ;) 22:00:26 	So the main point of that is that we're going to need volunteers for various things, including graphic design, printing stuff e.g. t-shirts or buttons, etc. 22:00:32 	so only good-looking people can wear FC.o shirts. nice PR control! | jk 22:00:38 	I guess I'll grab something from later in the agenda real quick 22:00:42 	gavinbaker, ow. 22:00:49 	FCorg calendar 22:00:52 	we'd like to have volunteer meetings in the future 22:01:00 	gavinbaker: I have a body of a god 22:01:05 	buddha 22:01:06 	"wearing nothing but EFF pasties" 22:01:14 	to "crowdsource" some of this labor 22:01:37 	I feel like anyone who uses the term crowdsource after being at the national conference can only do so with at least 15% irony 22:01:42 	traditionally the way we handle volunteers on the national level is through the "Core" list, which is composed of all people who want to work on FC national stuff 22:02:07 	skyfaller: but in the box o' swag that arrives in august or sept., the chapters will be getting some FC.o shirts, right? 22:02:14 	gavinbaker: yes 22:02:27 	although if we don't manage to print more before then, you won't be able to get larger than a Large 22:02:33 	but later we'll print more, and everyone will be happy. 22:02:39 	quite so 22:02:40 	ok, so what else can FC.o do for chapters 22:02:41 	skyfaller: mailing lists for chapters? 22:02:49 	yeah, we covered that under web hosting 22:03:07 	and as we said, if you want web hosting help, you can stay after this meeting 22:03:15 	and we'll give you whatever webspace stuff you nee 22:03:16 	good, just checking your memory. 22:03:16 	*need 22:03:28 	so how can chapters get advice / camaraderie? 22:03:29 	this is why real-time minutes would be good :P 22:03:37 	heh, and gavin is holding me to the agenda 22:03:41 	foiling my attempts to skip ahead 22:04:08 	So another thing we wanted to talk about is how you can get advice 22:04:14 	or just hobnob with other chapter members 22:04:25 	obviously you can use this IRC channel 22:04:34 	a bunch of us hang out here constantly 22:04:48 *	fco_guest02 (n=ca394196@30.145.221.202.bf.2iij.net) has joined #freeculture 22:04:52 	and we hope to have Chapters meetings on a regular basis here in the future 22:04:54 	just so everyone knows, FC.o is a great place to find a boyfriend. 22:05:09 *	pyrak is single ;) 22:05:10 *	fco_guest02 has quit (Client Quit) 22:05:10 	gavinbaker: I doubt there are women here right now ;-) 22:05:12 	totally 22:05:16 <erinR>	hey i'm still here 22:05:17 *	poningru looks at erinR 22:05:20 	rofl 22:05:24 	ladies, you gonna prove contra wrong? 22:05:25 <erinR>	i'm just listening 22:05:25 	mllerustad: is also a female 22:05:31 	if there's one woman, it's even creepier 22:05:32 	but taken ;) 22:05:32 	as is mind|wandering 22:05:50 	mllerustad started the Claremont chapter, and also is my girlfriend who I met through FreeCulture.org. Hi Karen! 22:05:55 	see, FC.o can find you love 22:06:07 	Hi, skyfaller! 22:06:11 	selling us high there, skyfaller 22:06:13 	:p 22:06:14 	awwwwwww 22:06:16 	you guys are probably in the same room right now 22:06:17 	also, this proves that there are at least two females in the channel 22:06:21 	rofl 22:06:24 	contra: Bingo. 22:06:25 	which is the kind of relationship you get through FCorg: IRC-based :) 22:06:39 	ouch 22:06:41 	okay, this is getting silly. (and depressing =P). MOVING ON! 22:06:46 	so IRC's great! what else ya got? 22:06:53 	I still occasionally slip and say "slash me" IRL conversation 22:06:54 *	mllerustad can has two x chromosomes?!? 22:06:55 	we also have mailing lists 22:06:55 	EMAIL 22:07:02 	email sucks ass. 22:07:11 	there is the FC-discuss list 22:07:13 	yes, more actual chapter members need to use the mailing list 22:07:14 	which you can sign up for 22:07:23 	it's very...other-group dominated 22:07:31 	I must admit that it seems to have been invaded by people who are not actually part of FreeCulture.org 22:07:37 	rofl 22:07:39 <erinR>	like who? 22:07:41 	but I can't figure out how to get rid of them without seeming like an asshole 22:07:46 	COPYRIGHT NEEDS TO BE BANNED 22:07:49 	how often do we have national get-togethers? does it always happen annually, or just when someone-or-another thinks to organize one? 22:07:49 	maybe I am an asshole, oh well 22:07:59 	nile: that's next on the agenda! 22:08:05 	skyfaller: "oops! our server lost the data. except, we recovered all of it, except apparently your email address. our bad!" 22:08:08 	not to be ironic, but I think proper use of the mailing list for advice/requests could helpfully "crowd source" a lot of our problems about supporting chapters 22:08:18 <erinR>	let's have the next one out here: the bay area's weather is nicer than boston 22:08:26 <erinR>	:) 22:08:28 	so there's this crazy thing called the chapters list 22:08:33 	no no... sunny florida 22:08:42 	which, wouldn't you know it, is for the chapter leaders 22:08:43 	mllerustad, cameronparkins are talking about organizing a west coast conference for next year 22:08:44 	bay area ftw 22:08:49 <erinR>	hurray! 22:08:51 	wait, which bay? 22:08:56 	tampa bay 22:08:57 	!! 22:09:00 	pyrak: the Gulf of Tonkin, d00d 22:09:03 	pyrak: you can help them too 22:09:10 	and erinR! 22:09:16 	wow, we actually have people on the west coast now 22:09:20 	skyfaller, millerustad: discussions haven't begun yet, but its still on my radar for things i want to get togheter 22:09:20 	how strange 22:09:22 <erinR>	maybe lessig will agree to talk 22:09:24 	erin, Hey, where are you exactly...? 22:09:25 	and some our of West Coast buddy orgz 22:09:28 <erinR>	at stanford 22:09:30 	like paulproteus ! 22:09:36 	she's only said that like 3 times guys 22:09:53 <Fear_of_C>	this might be crazy, but could we re-register the mailing list when we re-register the chapters? 22:09:58 <Fear_of_C>	or something of that sort 22:10:03 	Fear_of_C: or maybe even before then? 22:10:08 	err why? 22:10:10 	heh, we could do that 22:10:10 	I don't want to kick out the other orgs from the mailing list 22:10:12 	we might lose readership 22:10:19 	no no, there's a chapters list 22:10:24 	i assume that's what Fear_of_C means 22:10:27 <Fear_of_C>	it would be more polite than GTFO my mailing list 22:10:28 	at least, that's what i means 22:10:29 	do we have a list of all the active west caost chapters? 22:10:31 	coast* 22:10:35 	Fear_of_C: we have to get our mailing list back on track. Or maybe people just ignore my posts 22:10:42 	we need to get our chapter leaders on the chapters list 22:10:45 	I mean, the point of the FC-discuss list was to be open to outsiders 22:10:51 <erinR>	is santa cruz's chapter still active? 22:10:56 <Fear_of_C>	also, I don't know if I'm on the mailing list, or which mailing list(s) I'm on 22:11:01 	but the problem is that no actual relevant content is getting posted by actual FC members 22:11:03 	there's nothing wrong fc-disco. we just need something more, er, manageable 22:11:07 	for our seekrit cabals 22:11:16 	skyfaller: not at the expense of idiocy being introduced into it 22:11:33 *	conley heads off to the bathroom 22:11:35 	yeah, so gavinbaker is saying that we can just take our intelligent conversations elsewhere 22:11:41 	i.e. to the Chapters list 22:11:45 	which you all should be subscribed to 22:12:00 	when we say "chapter leaders", we don't mean one person per chapter 22:12:13 	and boy, it'd be great if people actually used the chapters list. let's talk! 22:12:14 	any chapter members who want to talk to other chapter members can be subscribed 22:12:30 	so conley, your minions can be subscribed to it too 22:12:39 	dividing up the mailing list is only going to make it less effective 22:12:48 	one big mailing list will be fine until we actual get some REAL volume 22:12:53 	(thus spake Ben) 22:13:02 	well, the Chapters list can be specifically for chapters stuff 22:13:14 	while FC-discuss is about anything at all related to free culture issues 22:13:24 	and you can go have philosophical debates and flamewars there 22:13:34 	while we keep Chapters on task and on topic 22:13:38 <Fear_of_C>	agreed 22:13:40 	\0/ flamewars 22:13:54 	flameware? 22:13:59 *	conley reenters and takes a seat 22:14:00 	I think this problem is generally solved by technology. Most people use mail clients with folders, filtering, threading, etc. It's easy to skip what you don't want 22:14:08 	whenever you want advice about how to do something at your chapter -- post it to chapters list! 22:14:11 	I know I ignore most of the list postings :) 22:14:12 <Fear_of_C>	some people use clients with that stuff 22:14:16 *	nile_ (n=nile@ip72-209-65-174.ga.at.cox.net) has joined #freeculture 22:14:18 	what gavinbaker said 22:14:19 <nile_>	anyway. 22:14:24 	if you want help with your chapter, post to Chapters 22:14:30 	and on-topic advice will be rendered 22:14:35 <Fear_of_C>	some of us prefer to just limit the input in the first place 22:14:48 	if you want to discuss general free culture issues, post to FC-discuss 22:14:48 	Fear_of_C: then don't subscribe to FC-disco ;) 22:14:48 <Fear_of_C>	and will unsubscribe to anything that doesn't get down to business enough % of the time 22:15:00 	me, I like when people send me emails because it helps to defray some of the feeling of being ignored when I send emails to other people 22:15:00 <Fear_of_C>	I seriously doubt that I am subscribed 22:15:05 	I think FC-discuss can be useeful, it was useful in the past 22:15:15 	Fear_of_C: you'd know if you were. your guitar would explode in your hands 22:15:18 	it's just not useful for specific chapters help for instance 22:15:28 	but yeah, we have mailing lists 22:15:29 	moving on! 22:15:31 	so for help with your chapter, post to chapters list. and if you see a question there, reply to it! 22:15:41 	(if you're not on the list, bug... skyfaller or paulproteus or someone) 22:15:50 	yeah gavinbaker 22:15:54 	bug him 22:16:19 	so yeah, another thing we have is a webpage that aggregates the personal blogs of FC members 22:16:24 	if they want to be aggregated 22:16:30 	planet? 22:16:33 	yeah 22:16:41 	pyrak: i.e planet.ubuntulinux.com 22:16:41 	http://planet.freeculture.org/ 22:16:42 *	bcb2114_ (n=brendan@c-69-180-189-36.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) has joined #freeculture 22:16:46 	err e.g 22:16:48 	it's not heavily populated 22:16:51 *	poningru shakes fist at nile 22:16:59 	but if you have a personal blog and you want it on there, we can put it there 22:17:09 	and then you can read about the adventures of your fellow FC members 22:17:14 	skyfaller, so the posts on the planet are not necessarily fc based? 22:17:27 	pyrak: no, they're your personal blog about whatever you want to write about 22:17:33 	it's just so that people can get to know each other 22:17:39 	even though they don't live in the same place or anything 22:17:40 	skyfaller: can we populate planet, and make it pretty, and publicize it more? 22:17:48 	ok, i'll talk to you later about adding madebyparker.com/blog :) 22:17:48 	how does someone get on the planet? 22:17:50 	gavinbaker: sure! but we need more blogs I guess 22:18:01 	it's kinda ghettoized now 22:18:04 	conley: ask me or gavinbaker, I guess 22:18:18 	ok, I am conley.toejammer.net/blog 22:18:22 	uh, i'll post to chapters asking people for their blog feeds, and you'll send them to me, for the time being ;) 22:18:23 	we'll figure out a way to scale that process better some other time 22:18:29 	sure, that works gavinbaker 22:18:31 	moving on! 22:18:31 <nile_>	so the Planet isn't the same as the aggregated FC.o chapters thing? 22:18:36 	nile_: no 22:18:48 	nile_: correct, not the same thing 22:18:52 	http://freeculture.org/chapternews/ is the aggregator for Chapter blogs 22:19:00 	which is also mostly populated by blog posts from Peru 22:19:11 	b/c none of our US chapters have used their blogs recently 22:19:14 	which is sad, really 22:19:27 	but we'll tackle that another time 22:19:33 *	bcb2114_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 22:19:42 *	nile_ aggregates his Flying Spaghetti Monster post 22:19:47 	aye no 22:19:51 	dont do it 22:19:55 	noo, did we lose bcb2114 ? 22:20:02 	anyway, moving on 22:20:06 	Summits! 22:20:14 	or Conferences 22:20:23 	physical get-togethers! meetups! 22:20:30 <nile_>	how often have they happened in the past? 22:20:40 	nile_: they've happened about once a year in the past 22:20:49 	one year we also had a regional conference in NYC 22:21:10 	I think that we should stick with one or two big national conferences a year, where we try to get EVERYONE together 22:21:17 	but we should also try to have more local meetups 22:21:19 	Is there an rss feed on the planet? I can't find one 22:21:23 	like, over the summer 22:21:25 <BrianRowe>	on the confernce note we need to plan the national confernce further in advance if we want west coasters to attend 22:21:39 	conley: it's a horrible web page design, we'll need to overhaul it sometime 22:21:45 	but it does produce an RSS feed 22:21:52 	summer mixers, particularly for interns and stuff like that 22:22:10 	BrianRowe: yeah, it's been hard for anybody from the non-immediate vicinity 22:22:15 	especially with no travel funding 22:22:26 	yeah, since many of us are in different cities from our schools, this is a great opportunity to meet people from other chapters 22:22:35 	conley, For the RSS feed, my Firefox detects and shows the icon. 22:22:43 	so let's try to get together this summer! 22:22:56 	yea, I figured it out 22:23:04 	to facilitate summer get-togethers, I'd like to propose rebooting the regional mailing lists 22:23:31 	traditionally we had mailing lists for large metro areas 22:23:57 	unfortunately when Leafyhost's server crashed we lost those lists, but now is a good time to start them again 22:24:01 	so we' 22:24:21 	we'll be advertising in the near future local mailing lists, and you can sign up for them and organize get togethers with one another 22:24:23 *	nile_ likes the idea of physical meetups. real life for the win. 22:24:26 	in the FC-approved decentralized fashion 22:24:47 	you can also use the national wiki for that sort of thing if you want 22:24:59 	wiki + mailing list should be enough technology to get y'all together 22:25:07 <nile_>	I don't know how effective using regional mailing lists would be, especially if you're only in the region for a short while 22:25:13 	nile_: you just like the cider :) 22:25:19 	nile_: well, if the mailing list archives are public 22:25:20 <nile_>	gavinbaker: pshaw 22:25:25 <hj_>	jajaja yeah i think my reginal meeting wont be a wild party... 22:25:27 	you can read them before subscribing 22:25:32 	or never subscribe at all 22:25:35 	lurkerrr 22:25:50 <BrianRowe>	might want to try to get people togeter at other local events like copynight or Net^2 events 22:26:04 	yeah, we support Copynight http://www.copynight.org/ 22:26:04 	hey, crazy idea, guys. since we have planet for blog rss feeds, can we do something similar for rss feeds from photo sites like flickr? 22:26:07 	copynight++ 22:26:14 	gavinbaker: heh, we could do that too 22:26:31 	gavinbaker: file a bug on our bug tracker https://launchpad.net/web/+bugs 22:26:32 	fileabug-- 22:26:39 	:P 22:26:48 *	pyrak wishes there was an open source alternative to flickr 22:27:03 *	nile has quit (Remote closed the connection) 22:27:10 	so hj_ brings up a good point 22:27:15 <Fear_of_C>	make one 22:27:15 	what if there aren't other people in your area 22:27:22 	that's why we have the national meetups 22:27:24 	recruit! 22:27:28 	oh 22:27:32 	certain places like the Midwest are sparsely populated 22:27:42 	especially with Free Culture folks 22:27:56 	but if we can get everyone together in one place, then that matters less 22:28:12 	we'd like to have both a west coast and east coast conference next year, I guess we'll see if we can pull it off 22:28:15 	but one thing is clear 22:28:28 	without funding to help cover people's transportation, these conferences won't be as awesome as they could be 22:28:36 	which we will get to later in the agenda! 22:28:48 	(sorry that this meeting is getting a little long, we'll try to hurry it up) 22:29:19 	So, that's all I have to say about physical meetups for the moment 22:29:27 	hopefully the regional meetups will go well this summer 22:29:28 *	mark007 has quit ("leaving") 22:29:32 	there's plenty of ways to make friends. so make friends :) 22:29:44 	and hopefully people like cameronparkins will help us organize national summits for next year 22:29:48 	moving on 22:29:49 	skyfaller: yeah in teh south east we are the only people 22:29:57 	News from FreeCulture.org! 22:30:03 	bcb2114: are you still there? 22:30:22 	guess not 22:30:41 	we have several potential national projects 22:30:50 	which we could get our chapters working on 22:30:54 	slash volunteers 22:31:18 *	contra has quit 22:31:53 	One example which I wanted Brendan from Columbia to talk about is Open Textbooks 22:32:31 	Brendan has been working on a front-end for finding open access / public domain textbooks for your classes 22:32:43 	it's an expansion of an idea that our Columbia chapter came up with 22:33:05 	the idea is to just make a simple tool so that people won't waste money buying a copy of Moby Dick if they don't want to 22:33:10 <hj_>	skyfaller: is there a demo we can look at, ? it would help a lot to my Print ond Demand proyect 22:33:12 	and promote the public domain in the process 22:33:22 	at Columbia they handed out public domain textbooks on flashdrives to students 22:33:36 	soo cool 22:33:42 	it was especially relevant at Columbia because one of their core classes is about classic literature 22:33:42 	gavinbaker, nile_ we should do that 22:33:47 	which is almost entirely public domain 22:33:55 *	mark007 (n=mark007@pool-71-101-191-76.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net) has joined #freeculture 22:33:58 	so students didn't have to buy textbooks for that class if they didn't want to 22:34:02 	this is neat, i remember musing about this same idea in here before, another nice thing would be instructions on what equipment is needed to make hard copies 22:34:13 	we want to generalize that, to encourage people to make open access textbooks and such 22:34:23 <Fear_of_C>	some local network filesharing like DC++ could take out the overhead 22:34:55 	one idea was making a Facebook frontend, an application that can detect what classes you have and what textbooks are required for it, and tell you if there are free copies available 22:35:01 	but that's just one idea of many 22:35:02 <Fear_of_C>	it would be cool if the necessary texts were all behind the firewall 22:35:02 	s/Facebook/"web app" 22:35:15 <Fear_of_C>	Facebook is good for marketing this kind of thing 22:35:19 	the other ideas that have been kicking around (which are all on the wiki) 22:35:32 	all of these are things where some initial planning has already gone into it 22:35:51 	so we don't necessarily have to go forward with them -- and they all need volunteers to help -- but they're some ideas for starters 22:36:00 <BrianRowe>	the SU chapter is pushing the idea of updating Wikipedia entries for supreme court cases we cover in class. we did a few last spring 22:36:13 	we've talked with the Digital Freedom Campaign about concerns on/near college campuses about p2p filesharing 22:36:18 <nile_>	man, that's a great idea. 22:36:30 	we've talked with the Future of Music Coalition about concerts on/near college campuses about Net neutrality (their Rock the Net campaign) 22:36:56 	uh, we have this idea for an interactive open access repository for student e-prints and working papers 22:37:04 	(if you don't know what that means, ask me later...) 22:37:18 	like the first half of PLoS One, except for students, in any subject 22:37:33 	uh, and there's this crazy thing going on to create a survey for U.S. Presidential candidates 22:37:36 <nile_>	first half? what's the second half of PLoS ONE? 22:37:45 	nile_: the second half is a formally peer-reviewed journal 22:37:53 <nile_>	gotcha 22:37:57 	the survey, a bunch of "grown-up" orgs are working on 22:38:07 	and it's pretty flippin' sweet, if i do say so myself. 22:38:13 <nile_>	who's heading up that candidates survey thing? 22:38:15 	(something similar happened in france earlier this year) 22:38:19 	nile_: brendan, i think 22:38:36 *	bcb2114 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 22:38:36 	which is why it's a shame that he seems to have signed off, but yeah 22:38:40 	ok, so those are some ideas. we need help on all of them -- or we could abort any of them. YOU will decide :) 22:38:40 	oh seriously? 22:38:48 	at the next volunteer meeting 22:38:52 	which brings us to... 22:38:54 	abort!!! abort!!! abort!!! 22:38:58 	... 22:39:02 	:p 22:39:07 	well, actually, that's later. in a bit we'll talk about how to get involved with FC.o 22:39:13 *	nile_ aborts poningru with a /kick 22:39:19 	uh, so that's my spiel. 22:39:27 	OK, so next subject 22:39:37 	IS EVERYONE PAYING ATTENTION? THIS IS IMPORTANT 22:39:44 *	pyrak widens eyes 22:39:52 <Fear_of_C>	***wakes up 22:39:58 	So next is The Future of FreeCulture.org 22:40:13 <BrianRowe>	... 22:40:14 	http://wiki.freeculture.org/2007-07-15  is our agenda for those who forgot 22:40:30 	So one problem that has plagued our organization is ... a lack of organization 22:40:49 	we have no by-laws or constitution or any founding document 22:41:01 	so it's unclear how decisions are made 22:41:11 	Fear_of_C: type /me to do an action 22:41:14 	a while ago a bunch of people appointed themselves to a Board of Directors 22:41:23 	including myself 22:41:27 <Fear_of_C>	conley: thanks 22:41:34 *	Fear_of_C thanks conley 22:41:39 	Fear_of_C: np 22:41:50 	there were theoretically elections, but since all seats were uncontested we didn't even bother voting 22:42:10 	and it's not clear how we would have conducted the election properly anyway 22:42:16 <nile_>	interesting 22:42:20 	this is one of many examples of the evils of not having bylaws 22:42:30 	it's important to know how the organization works and how decisions are made 22:43:01 	and it's important to have an organizational structure, a system that can outlive any single personality 22:43:12 	an institution 22:43:38 	we have a draft of by-laws that we have written up on the wiki 22:43:44 	at http://wiki.freeculture.org/Bylaws 22:43:57 	it's still got some editing left to go 22:44:17 	I love the pseudo-official lingo 22:44:33 	but I'd like to officially open a comments period for these by-laws 22:45:02 <nile_>	skyfaller: who ratifies it? when do we plan on having it become official? 22:45:17 <BrianRowe>	do you want comments on the disscussion page or people editing the bi-laws directly? 22:45:33 	and once we have collected comments, we should do a second "release candidate" 22:45:39 	and then we should have the chapters ratify them 22:45:45 	ratify the bylaws 22:45:50 	BrianRowe: discuss on the Talk page 22:46:01 	yes, on that page click the "discussion" tab 22:46:08 	(we wanted to use the GPLv3 revision system, but we couldn't get it up+running soon enough) 22:46:10 	to leave your own comments and read those of other people 22:46:19 *	cameronparkins has quit (Connection timed out) 22:46:47 	once the by-laws are ratified, we will have an official organizational structure 22:46:59 	so is the Talk page the "official" forum for discussing the bylaws? not the mailing list or IRC, e.g.? 22:47:25 	well, the Talk page is public and on the web 22:47:33 <Fear_of_C>	it's generally best to avoid cluttering the mailing lists 22:47:41 	Fear_of_C: hah, very funny 22:47:42 	you can talk about it elsewhere, but *official* comments that you want to work into the bylaws 22:47:47 	should go on that Talk page 22:47:54 	all other discussion will be considered unofficial 22:48:20 	another question, actually 22:48:27 	how will RC2 be prepared? 22:48:36 	like who decides what goes in the release candidate? 22:48:49 	"consensus"? 22:48:59 	well, that's a good question, isn't it? too bad we don't have a way to make decisions in this org! 22:49:08 	rofl 22:49:12 <nile_>	it makes it more fun 22:49:15 	we can run things by the Board of Directors, which was essentially self-appointed 22:49:25 	we can do consensus 22:49:43 	among all the chapters / chapter members who are payinga attention 22:49:50 <Fear_of_C>	if we are looking to replace the current governing structure, then i think it eventually has to come down to some kind of chapter vote 22:49:50 	in practice, I guess we'll do both 22:50:01 	Fear_of_C: right, the chapters will vote on the RC 22:50:04 	Fear_of_C: yes, that's what the ratification process is 22:50:06 	to "ratify" it 22:50:14 	if it doesn't get ratified, then we have to go edit it some more 22:50:20 	i just wondered, where does the RC come from... i guess the ether / the wikimonster 22:50:22 	we need both a house and a senate 22:50:29 	so it's in everyone's interest to get the by-laws to the point where all the chapters can be ratified 22:50:31 <Fear_of_C>	ok, so this happens after the redatabasing? 22:50:35 	so chapters get equal say, but bigger chapters get more say 22:50:35 	oye vey 22:50:45 	pyrak: too complicated 22:50:46 	pyrak: I have arguments as to why that isn't true 22:50:57 	skyfaller, i was mostly joking 22:51:05 	we can discuss that in detail later 22:51:11 	roger roger 22:51:11 	so yeah, once we have the by-laws ratified, we'll know how to hold elections 22:51:25 	and it's high time that we elected a new board of directors and got some new blood into the org 22:51:34 	I'd like to get the elections finished before school starts 22:51:37 	heh, sure you don't want to use the bug tracker to write the bylaws? 22:51:41 	... 22:51:47 	pretty sure, yes 22:51:54 	that'd be fun ;) 22:52:18 	so I'd like to hold elections before school starts, so that we'll have our new leadership ready before people get too busy 22:52:26 <nile_>	BUG #1: We're writing by-laws instead of doing something more interesting. 22:52:32 	WONTFIX 22:52:43 	pwnt 22:52:44 <nile_>	BUG #2: We're writing by-laws instead of doing something more interesting. 22:52:46 	nile_: there's no instead about it, we can do other things simultaneously :P 22:53:11 *	nile_ dupes til the bug counter variable overflows and it becomes bug #1 again 22:53:21 	nile_: but the point is that BUG #3: "We can't do anything interesting until we get organized" trumps #1 and #@ 22:53:24 	skyfaller: CONFIRMED 22:53:24 	erm, #2 22:53:35 	priority: HIGH 22:53:53 	uh, so what's the timeline on this crazy plan? 22:53:56 	so I would appreciate everyone's help / cooperation in getting organized, and we'll be discussing this in detail over the next several weeks 22:53:57 	s/crazy/"crafty" 22:54:18 <nile_>	s,craft,crufty =D 22:54:19 	well, as I said, I'd like to hold elections and get our new Board in place before the beginning of the schoolyear 22:54:25 	which puts us on a tight schedule 22:54:51 	I'd like to set the deadline for commenting on the Bylaws for 7/29 22:54:59 	paulproteus++ | for bug fixin' 22:55:14 	at which point we'll fix the by-laws to include everyone's comments, as far as possible 22:55:24 	ok, so that's 2 weeks to comment on the bylaws? 22:55:29 	yep 22:55:44 	that should be plenty of time to hash stuff out on the Talk page 22:55:49 	it's a tight schedule, and it may slip, but the more it slips the more we'll be doing stupid organizational stuff during the school year 22:55:51 *	cameronparkins (n=cameronp@c-76-102-175-119.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #freeculture 22:55:53 	when we should be doing activism 22:56:08 	s,activism,"something more interesting" 22:56:08 	sorry about getting kicked off - wireless at the coffee shop went down 22:56:15 	so I think we can re-write the bylaws to incorporate comments in about a week 22:56:17 	cameronparkins: sue the bastards 22:56:24 	or less than a week, I mean 22:56:36 	like, a day 22:56:44 	because we'll be incorporating comments as they are made 22:56:55 	we'll be working before the comment period deadline on 7/20 22:56:56 	erm 22:56:56 	so what i'm hearing is, there's going to be a meeting on 7/29 to prepare the RC? 22:56:59 	7/29 22:57:11 	gavinbake: already did (ps ive got some cool stuff for you read OA, sorry I havent e-mailed it yet) 22:57:32 	yeah, on 7/29 we'll meet up and try to prepare the RC of the bylaws 22:57:33 	gavinbaker: already did (ps ive got some cool stuff for you read OA, sorry I havent e-mailed it yet) 22:57:42 	i have a knack for typos 22:57:43 	cameronparkins: ooh, send it 22:58:02 	so I'd like to have the by-laws rewritten like that day 22:58:14 	then I'd like to offer the by-laws to the chapters to be ratified 22:58:34 *	Christina_ (n=chatzill@ool-4579d643.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #freeculture 22:58:38 	I'd like to set the deadline for that on 8/5 22:58:55 <nile_>	yay, it's Christina_ 22:58:58 	I'm going home, I suppose I will be back on in 30 minutes, is there anything you all need from me? 22:58:59 	August 5th, for those who are wondering what my date format is 22:59:05 	conley: nah, it'll be in the minutes 22:59:12 	sorry for the meeting taking longer than anticipated 22:59:13 <Christina_>	Yes! I am so glad you're still here- just got back from Boston 22:59:20 	no prob, later 22:59:24 *	conley has quit ("Leaving.") 22:59:27 	Christina_: heh, I don't think most of us are glad that we're still here 22:59:32 *	hj_ will be back in 20 min... 22:59:32 <Christina_>	hahahaha 22:59:33 	but at least one of us is happy :) 22:59:38 *	pyrak yawns 22:59:40 	:P 22:59:44 	we're almost done folks 22:59:51 	stick with us for a few more minutes 23:00:00 <Christina_>	so obviously I have missed a lot, I will be trying to catch on 23:00:10 	So I'd like to have the by-laws ratified by August 5th 23:00:13 	by all the chapters 23:00:14 <nile_>	Christina_: gavinbaker is writing up minutes, I believe 23:00:35 <Christina_>	ok great thank you 23:00:36 	which would allow us to begin nominating people for the Board of Directors 23:00:40 <nile_>	skyfaller: sounds good. chapters = chapters' presidents? 23:01:19 	nile_: that's a detail of the by-laws, but I guess, one vote per chapter is what I've proposed in the by-laws 23:01:40 	i guess each chapter decides how their vote is cast? 23:01:45 	yeah, that's what I propose 23:01:53 	it doesn't have to be their president 23:02:08 	so, unilateral decision by the president, vote of the exec. board, vote of the membership... however the chapter wants 23:02:14 *	nile_ blinks 23:02:16 	consensus (ugh) 23:02:21 	whatever works for each chapter 23:02:25 <nile_>	okay then 23:02:29 	there's the meta-decision of how to decide that, but for now, chapters will just "decide" something and that's the vote :D 23:02:45 	yeah, each chapter can figure that out in their own by-laws or whatever :P 23:02:48 	later on, each chapter can have their own discussion about how to vote 23:02:54 	we're just working on the national org's by-laws right now 23:03:16 	so by 8/12, I want to open the polls, and let chapters start voting for the Board of Directors 23:03:26 	I want to close the polls by 8/19 23:03:34 	and then we'll have a Board of Directors 23:03:39 	once the votes are counted 23:03:49 	cap on number of board members? 23:03:57 	pyrak: a detail of the by-laws 23:04:06 	it'll depend on how many people are nominated, I suppose 23:04:18 	we've proposed 5, 7 or 9 board members in the by-laws 23:04:28 	but it's a detail that isn't that vitally important to me 23:04:38 	that week, the new Board of Directors will have their first meeting 23:04:45 	which will be right at the start of the school year 23:05:03 	pyrak: we can discuss on the Talk page how many board members there should be 23:05:07 	so we'll have a full organization organized and ready to take on the world by the end of August 23:05:18 	s/on/over :) 23:05:26 	lol 23:05:53 	which will allow us to get back to the business of activism just as the school year starts 23:06:05 	however, we will simultaneously have to prepare for the school year itself 23:06:37 *	tvol has quit (Connection timed out) 23:06:38 	uh, so about that 23:06:43 	let's get some volunteers! 23:06:55 	"how to get involved with FreeCulture.org" 23:07:04 	http://wiki.freeculture.org/2007-07-15 again is the agenda, Christina_ 23:07:18 <Christina_>	thanks i have been checking it out 23:07:43 	so we used to have volunteer meetings all the time 23:07:59 	we had something called the "Core team" which consisted of everyone who was interested in volunteering at the national level 23:08:12 	it had its own mailing list, the Core list 23:08:20 	and it got things done sometimes pretty well :) 23:08:45 *	nile (i=nile@tor/regular/nile) has joined #freeculture 23:08:51 	its main fault was the lack of organization / decision-making structure, which is something that I hope the by-laws and elections will take care of by the end of the summer 23:09:03 	but until then we'll just have to forge ahead in anarchy ;-) 23:09:10 	I'd like to re-create that list 23:09:12 *	nile shakes fist 23:09:17 	s/anarchy/consensus 23:09:33 	and get people organized and working on the stuff that we need to do before the school year starts 23:09:44 	so that we can start the semester on the right foot 23:09:49 	there's also the broad question of having FC.o open to input/involvement overall 23:09:49 	so how can you get involved 23:09:58 	which is important in two ways 23:10:06 	both because FC.o needs more people to help out 23:10:09 <Christina_>	I know that at the conference I mentioned that I would be interested in acting as the press point person 23:10:23 <Christina_>	would still love to do that 23:10:25 	and because FC.o *should* be open to volunteers from the chapters 23:10:33 <Christina_>	agreed 23:10:35 	Christina_: great, noted -- we used to have a press person 23:10:42 	there actually used to be a press team 23:10:51 	it didn't always work great... but we have to try again 23:10:55 	and keep trying and tinkering until it works 23:10:57 <Christina_>	need a self-appointed comm director? im the girl 23:10:59 <Christina_>	haha 23:11:19 	there have been various ideas about how we can do volunteerism better 23:11:35 	obviously if we're more open with the tasks that need to be done 23:11:45 	then it's easier for volunteers to chip in 23:11:52 	lowering the barrier to entry is an excellent goal 23:11:56 <Christina_>	let's prioritize 23:12:02 	what if we approached it in an almost craigslit-type way? 23:12:03 <Christina_>	where do we need the most help? 23:12:21 	Christina_: we need help everywhere, it's a little hard to prioritize at the moment. Give me a sec 23:12:23 	Christina_: we'll have to save this for another meeting, unfortunately 23:12:29 	we've been here for 2h+ at this point 23:12:31 <Christina_>	craig's list is amazing, i just held an arts event in boston the majority of people who came to help were because of craig's list 23:12:38 	which is why we need to have volunteer meetings again 23:12:53 	so... when's the next volunteer meeting? ( skyfaller? ) 23:13:13 	heh, I wanted to briefly talk about where we've done successful volunteer work recently 23:13:26 	specifically, the Web Team 23:13:35 	ftw 23:13:40 *	nile_ has quit ("leaving") 23:13:40 *	hj_ is bkack and loves the / me coomand 23:13:48 	the Web Team is the only surviving "Team" from all of the teams we used to have 23:13:53 	and it's still doing great work 23:13:55 	why is that? 23:14:06 	well... there were long stretches of inactivity, weren't there? 23:14:15 	and there were some pretty significant failures 23:14:22 *	Yaco2 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 23:14:23 	so... it's not a perfect team :) 23:14:26 	sure, our webhost died and lost all of our data 23:14:34 	and our website was offline for a few weeks 23:14:36 	and we had no backups (or, not complete) 23:14:46 	but that's not what I want to focus on ;-) 23:14:50 	it gets points for showing up 23:14:53 	heh 23:15:00 	unlike the other teams which fell out of existence 23:15:17 	well, Core Team has sort of defaulted to the Board 23:15:23 	but everything else has vanished 23:15:28 	one thing that I think has helped the web team is the fact that its tasks were broken down into manageable parts 23:15:33 	skyfaller, i think one reason the web team is successful is, like you said, entry is really easy 23:15:41 	and several months ago we started publishing bugs on the Bug Tracker 23:15:44 	https://launchpad.net/web/+bugs 23:15:55 	this is a list of all of the tasks that the web team needs to do 23:15:57 	another reason Web Team works is because everybody hangs out in IRC :) 23:16:02 	laid out clearly and succinctly 23:16:06 <Christina_>	what were the other teams? 23:16:09 	gavinbaker, the key to success 23:16:16 <Fear_of_C>	IRC needs to be more advertised, I think 23:16:16 	is the Webteam list still used? 23:16:17 	and you can track our progress by seeing people open and close bugs 23:16:22 	Christina_: see http://wiki.freeculture.org/Mailing_lists 23:16:28 *	cameronparkins has quit 23:16:32 <Fear_of_C>	I didn't know about it until skyfaller mentioned it in IM, I think 23:16:39 <Christina_>	thank you 23:16:44 	gavinbaker: yes, it is, for stuff that isn't bug reports, like when is our next web team meeting? 23:16:48 	Christina_: actually, see http://wiki.freeculture.org/Teams 23:16:52 	heh 23:17:06 	yeah, that is another thing that the web team does well 23:17:11 	I think it has some camraderie 23:17:13 <Christina_>	yea I found it, staight forward 23:17:21 	because they're all geeks that hang out in this IRC channel and talk to one another 23:17:24 	irc++ 23:17:42 	this may not be the exact way to bring together the other teams, although I think it is definitely a good method 23:17:54 	face-to-face meetings like we proposed earlier today are one method 23:18:12 	conference calls and videoconferences are other possibilities (for people who have that technology / budget)O 23:18:25 	we could try to replicate the bug tracker for other teams 23:18:33 	like i said, with a craig's list type thing 23:18:38 	but regardless, some camraderie like our IRC channel is good 23:18:38 	another reason the web team has worked is because it has a leader 23:18:40 <Christina_>	i was just going to say conference calls - easy & efficient 23:18:41 	like a "job listing" for volunteer work 23:18:48 	paulproteus has been there to make things happen when nobody else was 23:18:52 <Fear_of_C>	teamspeak! 23:18:52 	Christina_: IRC is better in some ways, but that's an argument for another day 23:19:01 	teams need a leader for stuff to consistently get done 23:19:29 	yeah, Asheesh has done a good job of organizing the labor 23:19:38 	gavinbaker, With all due modesty, I can't underestimate how important I've been.... 23:19:38 	and I guess I can pat myself on the back for recruiting people to join the web team 23:19:48 <Christina_>	I love this so far, so easy 23:19:49 	During time gaps, that is. 23:19:53 	paulproteus, you're so wonderful! 23:19:54 	0_0 23:20:02 	=) 23:20:09 	paulproteus = Asheesh 23:20:11 	<3 23:20:13 	Now when we have dudes like pyrak appearing as if out of nowhere it's certainly quite some relief! 23:20:27 	paulproteus is the capitalist that organizes the unwashed masses. that's why he's awesome! 23:20:42 *	nile glances at gavinbaker 23:20:44 	yeah, unfortunately our recruiting method was "Nelson personally IMs people" or "people hang out in IRC and hear about web stuff" 23:20:54 	we need to make it more public in the future 23:20:57 	same with other teams 23:21:03 	ok, so how to do that? 23:21:17 	ok, i fear i'm becoming redundant 23:21:17 	(1) have meetings 23:21:32 	publicly announced meetings 23:21:32 	but again, "job board"/craigslist setup 23:21:44 	pyrak: we've heard you -- it'll be in the minutes! 23:21:52 	awesome, sorry for redundancy 23:21:52 	so here's where we announce the meeting time! 23:21:56 	heh 23:22:18 	so who wants to volunteer and when are you free? I'd like to propose Weds 10pm EDT, because that's a traditional time that has worked in the past 23:22:29 	but we could also do Sunday afternoon before the Chapters meeting 23:22:32 	personally, i'm don't think i'll show up at 10pm EDT on a weeknight 23:22:32 	or any other time 23:22:33 *	conley (n=conley@72.29.62.203) has joined #freeculture 23:22:40 	i think that'll be the same for others who work on the East Coast 23:22:46 	gavinbaker: well, many people are busy with activities until late at night 23:22:50 <Christina_>	I can't either, bad wifi in my apt 23:22:50 *	conley steps back in 23:22:54 	skyfaller: remember it's the summer 23:22:54 	I'm going to go eat dinner now. 23:22:56 <erinR>	me either - work 23:23:00 	heh 23:23:09 	well, with a new group of people comes a new time that's good for everyone I guess 23:23:11 	paulproteus, bon appetit 23:23:11 	is the weekend terrible for people? like sunday? 23:23:14 	what about Sunday afternoon? 23:23:27 	I mean, the problem with that time used to be that people had homework due the next day 23:23:35 	well, not over the summer. 23:23:43 	we don't have to pick a time that'll last forever, just for a month 23:23:44 	OK, so I guess we're talking about over the summer now 23:23:45 	that's true 23:23:47 <Christina_>	I thought tonight's time was good even though i had to be late for this one 23:24:02 	Christina_: I wanted to have the chapter meetings at this time 23:24:02 <erinR>	i thought so too 23:24:03 	hell, if we can have the first volunteer meeting, it's a start, and we can schedule-adjust from there 23:24:03 <Fear_of_C>	it's getting late on the east coast over here 23:24:09 	but we could have volunteer meetings before or after 23:24:25 	would people want to arrive an hour early for the chapters meeting, say at 8pm EDT? 23:24:27 	Sunday, 9pm EDT. good for me. 23:24:44 	8 is okay too 23:24:46 	re: meetings one after another, consider overflow, like we're seeing now ;) 23:24:50 <Christina_>	8 is fine 23:24:57 	well, one meeting will have to be viciously cut off 23:25:04 	true 23:25:08 	and if we have the volunteers meeting first, that's what will be cut off 23:25:10 	viciously 23:25:13 	and without remorse 23:25:15 	skyfaller: are we going to have weekly chapters meetings? 23:25:27 	I think we should 23:25:28 	i mean, what exactly will happen at those meetings? 23:25:38 	they can be short and unofficial if people don't have a lot of business 23:25:44 	but I think it would be good for people to talk to each other 23:25:48 	what "business" would there be for chapters? 23:25:53 	for my money (2cents?) i agree that sunday nights people may be busy stressing about getting a paper done by morning 23:26:03 	at least i will be, personally 23:26:06 <Fear_of_C>	sunday nights are probably not as good during the school year 23:26:08 	pyrak: but they're even more stressed during the week 23:26:14 	and are too busy partying on Friday and Saturday 23:26:16 <Fear_of_C>	they are ok during the summer as long as they do not run too late 23:26:18 	heh 23:26:26 	which is why we used to have them on Weds 23:26:30 	b/c that's the middle of the week 23:26:30 	look, scheduling is hard. we don't have to find a perfect time now. let's just pick a time for next week! 23:26:31 <Fear_of_C>	actually, I think I'm usually less stressed thursday night than sunday 23:26:32 	summertime this isn't a concern, true 23:26:37 	and presumably relatively unstressful 23:26:38 <Christina_>	sundays are still fine, i start stressing monday mornings 23:26:44 	let's pick a time for next week. we can pick later times later. 23:26:45 	yeah 23:26:51 	we'll talk about times during the school year another time 23:27:05 	but is Sunday at 8pm EDT fine for everyone over the summer? 23:27:13 <erinR>	yes 23:27:13 <Fear_of_C>	seems pretty good 23:27:16 	speak now or forever hold your peace (at least, until next week) 23:27:31 	personally, i'm off a week from tomorrow, so may not be able to make it next week 23:27:37 	then for the following month :( 23:27:41 	but i'll do my best 23:27:41 *	CTho has quit (Connection timed out) 23:27:44 	pyrak: that's fine, you're already volunteering with the web team 23:27:50 <Christina_>	Yes to 8 23:27:56 	you have a chapter to run, you don't have to be on 5 teams :P 23:28:09 	yeah, but my chapter is not so active 23:28:15 	pyrak: then you should work on that! 23:28:23 	whipping highschoolers into an activist mentality is extremely difficult 23:28:36 	pyrak: just tell them they're taking bittorrent away 23:28:37 	we can get other coders, but we can't get other people at your high school unless you personally recruit them 23:28:42 	(do kids still use bittorrent?) 23:28:47 <Fear_of_C>	yeah 23:28:48 	question, should the web team (or at least a rep) be at the volunteers meeting? 23:29:00 	yeah, a rep should always be at the volunteers meeting I think 23:29:08 	so that if the other volunteers need some web stuff done 23:29:14 	they can ask the web team rep abouut it 23:29:35 	paulproteus: would you be OK with Sunday at 8pm EDT? 23:29:42 	oh, he's eating 23:29:42 	ok. so anyone who wants to volunteer, bring your pretty faces 'round here at 8pmEDT a week from now 23:29:58 	uh, hanging out in IRC is also a good way to get involved 23:30:03 	wait 23:30:03 	not to plug IRC too hard ;) 23:30:07 	we're going to start a mailing list again 23:30:10 	for volunteers 23:30:14 	is that the same as Core? 23:30:15 <Fear_of_C>	stupid question: what time zone is EDT? 23:30:19 	can we call it Core for old time's sake? 23:30:24 	Fear_of_C: Eastern time 23:30:25 	Fear_of_C: it's 11:30pm in EDT right now 23:30:30 <Fear_of_C>	ah, ok, cool 23:30:30 	during daylight savings time 23:30:31 	that is the east 23:30:31 <Fear_of_C>	thanks 23:30:47 	So volunteers will organize using the Core list? 23:30:49 	see www.timeanddate.com for all your reference needs 23:30:53 	core@freeculture.org ? 23:30:57 	is that fine with people? 23:31:16 *	e (i=ab40f482@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-c15705dae3aef3c8) has joined #freeculture 23:31:17 	sure 23:31:19 	heh, I guess so 23:31:21 <Christina_>	yes 23:31:23 	ok 23:31:25 	e? 23:31:28 	who wants to be subscribed to Core 23:31:31 	is this how we used to use core? 23:31:32 	erin? 23:31:36 <Christina_>	me 23:31:40 	give me your e-mail addresses 23:31:40 <Fear_of_C>	me too 23:31:41 	k 23:31:44 	and who will decide who gets subscribed to core? 23:31:47 <Fear_of_C>	nlaracu1@swarthmore.edu 23:31:49 *	pyrak raises hand 23:31:50 	skyfaller, it's fine! 23:31:50 	poningru@ufl.edu 23:32:03 	gameguy43@gmail.com 23:32:05 	skyfaller, I want to! 23:32:09 	should we just put out the call on chapters list? and have people forward it to their chapters? 23:32:11 	nile: e-mail address 23:32:16 	nile @ deadbox.ath.cx 23:32:17 	gavinbaker: yeah, we'll put out a call on the Chapters list 23:32:21 <e>	my browser keeps closing 23:32:29 	and anyone can join if they're interested in volunteering 23:32:31 	p.s. why can't we call it volunteers@freeculture.org? (or, better, volunteers@lists.freeculture.org ?) 23:32:38 	silly firefox. 23:32:43 	e: you should get a real IRC client, sorry that the web portal isn't working for you 23:32:51 	e: I can help you with that after the meeting 23:32:57 	s/firefox/iceweasel | no trademark violations in here! 23:32:58 <BrianRowe>	Later, see you next week. 23:33:14 	bye bye BrianRowe 23:33:14 *	poningru beats up gavinbaker 23:33:16 	bye BrianRowe ! more happy-fun-time next week! 23:33:21 	... I can change it to volunteers 23:33:21 *	BrianRowe (n=Brion@71-35-169-59.tukw.qwest.net) has left #freeculture 23:33:26 	I don't really care 23:33:33 	hey guys lets keep this meeting going 23:33:38 	Core just gives me warm fuzzies, but don't listen to the nostalgic fogey 23:33:39 	only half an hour to make it 3 hours 23:33:40 <Christina_>	cducruet@gmail.com 23:33:42 	poningru, it's done once we decide this 23:33:46 	volunteers is probably a bit more obvious than core, but I really don't care. 23:33:54 	ok, fine Volunteers it is 23:33:59 	waah 23:33:59 	++ 23:34:01 	in with the new 23:34:03 	out with the old 23:34:12 <hj_>	Who has the minute ? 23:34:13 	volunt33rs 23:34:15 	i thought the Core Team was the predecessor to Board... well, it was both... for decision-making and for doing-stuff 23:34:21 	hj_, gavinbaker (supposedly) 23:34:30 	hj_: yes, i'll send them to the chapters list. are you on that list? 23:34:31 	Core was everyone who volunteered with FC.o 23:34:41 	FC.o back then was a "work-o-cracy" 23:34:43 *	poningru pastes log 23:34:52 	where we decided things by consensus among the people who volunteered nationally 23:34:52 	we still are 23:34:52 *	nile isn't on the chapters list =( 23:35:07 	skyfaller, can you add me to that? 23:35:17 	nile: sure, I'll go do that 23:35:20 	ok, is everybody on the chapters list? tell me now (preferably in PM, if you know how) if you aren't 23:35:44 	meeting closed? 23:35:54 	(type /msg gavinbaker hi gavin, this is a private message) 23:35:57 	nile: nile@deadbox.ath.cx is subscribed to the Chapters list 23:36:00 	other orders of business 23:36:04 	Christina_, erinR, pyrak, hj_: you're on the chapters@freeculture.org mailing list? 23:36:05 *	nile cheers 23:36:13 	nile: no, it was subscribed already 23:36:21 	pyrak: this is the last order of business for the night 23:36:23 	nile:  so you should investigate why you didn't get the last e-maill 23:36:28 <Christina_>	I think I am? 23:36:31 	pyrak: what, this meeting wasn't long enough for you? 23:36:38 	gavinbaker, hm, i think i'm only on discuss, add me: gameguy43@gmail.com 23:36:42 	Christina_: check if you just got some messages from me to that list 23:36:49 <Christina_>	ok 23:36:57 	(in the future we'll have a more organized way of making sure people get on the chapters list) 23:37:10 	(in the future, time travel will be safe!) 23:37:15 <Christina_>	I am on it, I thought so thanks 23:37:28 	pyrak: gameguy43@gmail.com is already subscribed too 23:37:35 	why the fuck aren't our e-mails getting to people? 23:37:39 	WTF 23:37:41 	skyfaller, oh. what the hell. 23:37:49 	are we being greylisted? spam-filtered? deleting them before you read them? ... 23:37:54 *	ryanfaerman (n=ryanfaer@crlspr-69.65.71.237.myacc.net) has joined #freeculture 23:38:19 	I hate e-mail, just for the record 23:38:33 	p.s. if you're on the chapters list, you can post to it, too! yay for r/w culture :D 23:38:52 	ok, i found an email from fc-chapters, so i think i'm good 23:39:05 	ok 23:39:08 	nevermind. I am on it. 23:39:12 *	nile gets gavin's mail 23:39:16 	pyrak, nile: pay attention next time :P 23:39:28 	nile: unlike some blackholes we know 23:39:41 	OK, well, that's it 23:39:52 	um. so i'll start a wiki page for next week's volunteer meeting 23:40:01 	we'll be announcing through various venues that we're having a volunteers meeting next week 23:40:05 	and another chapters meeting 23:40:07 	it'll be 2007-07-(15+7) 23:40:14 	er, that's 2007-07-22 23:40:19 	good math, Gavin 23:40:25 	if you have something you want to talk about, add it to that page 23:40:28 	i wanna throw out a crazy idea for a "project" that i came up with the other day 23:40:36 	pyrak: put it on the wiki :) 23:40:44 	pyrak: bring it up at the volunteers meeting 23:40:46 	and once we get the list set up, we can discuss it on the volunteers list 23:40:49 	put it on the agenda beforehand 23:40:53 	skyfaller, I guess I just assumed the announcement email was sent to fc-discuss 23:40:58 	ok 23:41:10 	nile: no, nobody on FC-discuss is actually in a chapter :P 23:41:27 	right, makes sense. 23:41:29 *	nile dances 23:41:35 	yay meeting over! 23:41:36 	alright, this meeting is finally over 23:41:40 	so any projects or working ideas, bring them to the volunteers meeting (post them on the wiki beforehand) 23:41:42 	let's all go home and get drunk or something 23:41:47 	read over the bylaws and comment on them! 23:41:48 	gavinbaker, seriously. blackholes for the lose 23:41:54 	for the record, not all meetings are this long 23:42:00 	this is just the first meeting we've had in months 23:42:07 	skyfaller, I'm straightedge, you insensitive clod! 23:42:13 	so stuff has piled up 23:42:23 	nile: gavin says you're lying ;-) 23:42:42 	e, pyrak, conley.... you needed webspace help? 23:42:48 	Fear_of_C? 23:42:49 	sure 23:43:05 	I guess who has to go to bed first? 23:43:15 	to each according to his need! 23:43:22 *	skyfaller establishes webspace marxism 23:43:29 *	gavinbaker has changed the topic to: FreeCulture.org | student movement for free culture | http://freeculture.org/ | Bug tracker: https://launchpad.net/web/+bugs | New Web site just launched, check it out! | Minutes from last Chapters meeting at: http://wiki.freeculture.org/2007-07-15| Volunteer meeting Sunday, 2 July at 8 pm EDT 23:43:51 <Christina_>	ok 23:43:54 <Christina_>	night night 23:44:03 	skyfaller, i think i already filed bugs for the stuff i needed 23:44:05 	Christina_: thanks for coming! 23:44:08 	so you can get to it whenever 23:44:10 	bye Christina_ ! 23:44:20 	poningru: will you dump the log on the wiki and link me when you have? 23:44:22 <Christina_>	glad I got to be here for a little bit! 23:44:30 <Christina_>	see you at the volunteer mtg i guess 23:44:33 <Christina_>	bye 23:44:50 	Christina_: thanks for coming! 23:44:52 *	Christina_ has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.4/2007051502]")