Archive:2011-03-20/Log

[18:51:14] meeting in 10? [18:56:11]  astory: in 5 now! [18:56:14]  reporting for duty [18:58:56] <-> pyrak_ is now known as pyrak [18:59:03] I hope other people will be here :/ [18:59:09] skyfaller: paulproteus jeremyb ping [18:59:14] Yup [18:59:18] Ill take my 1 min [19:00:02] wow, this git proposal is formal! [19:00:04] http://piratepad.net/QSLYxVUmIf [19:01:23] * astory has changed topic for #freeculture to: "Students for Free Culture || http://freeculture.org || Webteam meeting http://piratepad.net/QSLYxVUmIf || Website suggestions? - Report a bug at https://launchpad.net/web/ | SFC NYC conference is over http://conf11.freeculture.org/" [19:01:36] should we wait for skyfaller? [19:01:45] Nah, let's rock it. [19:01:50] ok, cool [19:01:51] He can read scrollback. [19:01:55] let me pull up launchpad [19:02:02] cool [19:02:06] finishing reading the git proposal [19:02:24] ok, so [19:02:35] paulproteus: have you determined whether we're tracking sensitive stuff in svn? [19:02:49] astory: First, call "roll" to see who's here for the meeting!. [19:02:54] oh, bleh [19:02:55] what? [19:02:56] roll? [19:03:00] Like, "roll call" [19:03:03] Who's here for the meeting? [19:03:10] k [19:03:13] -*- paulproteus is. [19:03:14] well, I am [19:03:22] jeremyb: now's your chance to say hi!! [19:03:25] Also astory, URL for agenda? [19:03:32] it's in the topic [19:03:45] Oh, right-o. [19:04:11] pyrak: ping [19:04:12] Okay, so yeah, I have done nothing with checking fco svn for sensitive data. [19:04:15] I can do that right now, though. [19:04:27] pong [19:04:33] ok, cool, I'd like to get that figured out soon so I can start migrating stuff to git (if we decide to do that) [19:04:46] astory: Yeah -- I'm okay with checking that this instant. [19:04:48] -*- paulproteus does so [19:05:09] okay [19:05:10] does anybody know why I can't adjust bug importances in launchpad? [19:05:17] no, that sucks! [19:05:22] it's greyed out :( [19:05:36] checking if i can replicate... [19:05:37] Do we need to make you an awesome team manager thingamabob? [19:05:43] -*- paulproteus keeps dealing with svn [19:05:44]  you probably have to be logged in and a member of the team that has that privelig [19:05:45] yeah, i can change [19:05:53]  wow, spelling [19:06:00] Yay, hi greg-g!! [19:06:08]  :) hiya there paulproteus ! [19:06:18] I don't think I know you, could you introduce yourself? [19:06:29]  astory: ah, yes, sorry. [19:06:53] ?def pyrak [19:06:57] :( [19:07:30]  Hiya, I'm Greg, nominal member of SFC. Day-job is Copyright Specialist at the University of Michigan. nom de guerre "Thumper for Openness" [19:08:19] cool! [19:08:20]  http://grossmeier.net/about for more. Also, perpetual IRC lurker and interjector of answers/tips when I have them. ;) [19:08:41] ok, so moving down the list... [19:08:41] greg-g: nom de guerre. never heard that and it rocks [19:08:52] we've got this bug about marking comments as spam [19:08:52] so apparently i suck at administrating our launchpad project [19:08:57] or i don't have the right permissions [19:09:09]  pyrak: ;) [19:09:11] but i can't figure out how to try to boost your permissions, astory. paulproteus can you poke it? [19:09:18] pyrak: Can do, right now [19:09:22] rockin [19:10:06] right, chapter aggregator [19:10:13] which bug did i squash last week? [19:10:17] -*- pyrak checks launchad [19:10:23] chapter aggregator [19:10:32] also, please help me keep the minutes working when you have a moment [19:10:36] -*- paulproteus 's head bops for Alphaville, aw yeah [19:11:11] -*- jeremyb looks up [19:11:18] jeremyb: ohai! [19:12:14] astory: retry w/ launchpad [19:12:33] paulproteus: success, I now have an edit button [19:12:39] ah, right [19:12:41] i remember what i fixed [19:12:44] one of the front page feeds [19:12:50] let me check to see if that is in fact fixed [19:13:08] BTW, all: What I did was add astory to the team that owns the "web" project on Launchpad. [19:13:37] rockin [19:13:47] so it looks like these feeds are stuff effing busted [19:14:13] unless yale isn't actually on the list, and oct 2010 is actually the most recent update [19:14:19] -*- pyrak looks further into this [19:14:19] hmm, odd [19:14:21] --> K`Tetch (~no@adsl-88-117-143.asm.bellsouth.net) has joined #freeculture [19:14:21] <-- K`Tetch (~no@adsl-88-117-143.asm.bellsouth.net) has quit (Changing host) [19:14:22] --> K`Tetch (~no@unaffiliated/ktetch) has joined #freeculture [19:14:28] pyrak: can you look into it offline? [19:14:35] yeah [19:14:40] i'll append it to a todo list [19:14:47] did you take the bug down? [19:15:00] i think i did [19:15:04] I'd like to finish running down the bugs [19:15:10] i see [19:15:16] paulproteus: did you find anything yet? [19:15:17] hm [19:15:24] Not yet; I expect not to. [19:15:33] ok, cool. Close the bug when you do. [19:15:43] drop bug URL in the minutes for me? [19:15:43] ok, jeremyb, did you make progress on the IRC integration? [19:16:10] one thing that i see as pseudo-ridiculously-high importance right now is forum front-end for the mailing list [19:16:15] can someone take that one on this afternoon? [19:16:32] Oh, huh, pyrak. [19:16:34] <-- K`Tetch_ (~no@adsl-88-117-143.asm.bellsouth.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) [19:16:36] So re: that: [19:16:39] yeah [19:16:43] I think we should switch to Phorum. [19:16:50] It'll be "fairly easy to do" with Phorum. [19:17:02] i also want to honor the conversations that happened at the conf. as i recall, it was mostly sharing feelings and not so much actionable tasks [19:17:12] but if someone understands actions we should know that! [19:17:16] By "switch to Phorum" I mean, "Create a new Phorum instance that's integrated with Mailman". [19:17:29] paulproteus: rockin. that sounds totally doable [19:17:30] pyrak: yeah, there wasn't much we could do there, really, I don't think there was any solution that made people happy [19:17:32] I'd be quite happy to be around for whoever wants to set that up, so that the person can ask me questions. [19:17:39] ok, cool, let's do that [19:17:56] astory or jeremyb, do either of you want to take that one? [19:18:07]    assert type(message) == type(u'nicode') [19:18:08] astory: i've done nothing with IRC integration. i would say i'm likely to do nothing on that front in the next 1.5 weeks (international travel and conference and all) but i should be able to in the 2 week after that [19:18:12] ^^ I am proud of the above pun [19:18:31] heh! [19:18:32] jeremyb: cool, just checking in [19:19:05] ok, so it seems like the wordpress spam bug is waiting on a more detailed bug report from skyfaller; I'll ping him on that later [19:19:20] non-actionable-so-far thought: our bug list is getting long, which is making it less inviting [19:19:29] it's only got like 7 items! [19:19:32] when it was ~3 things, it seemed like such a good idea to hop in and rock one [19:19:51] https://bugs.launchpad.net/web/+bugs [19:19:51] bah [19:19:54] so, paulproteus just kinda explained the phorum thing to me [19:19:54] i disagree [19:20:09] it's more than 7 [19:20:12] i agree, it's not so bad [19:20:18] oh, there were a bunch I wasn't seeing for some reason [19:20:55] this is taking a lot longer than I'd hoped, maybe we should move on. I'd like to get everybody doing something for the next period though [19:21:01] (unless you're busy or whatever) [19:21:10] sounds good. i have things. [19:21:23] ok, what precisely? [19:22:01] make me think about how mozilla works: they run mailman, someone else runs nntp, and it's hooked to google groups. those places are all gated to eachother but i think google groups is read only (new posts only through nntp/smtp) [19:22:16] Parker's todo list [19:22:16] * fix chapter hosting [19:22:16] ** make it so that from the chapter db you can add something to the planet and it'll "just work" [19:22:16] * add a nice bug huge enormous "subscribe to our list" link [19:23:00] cool, sounds good [19:23:03] anyway, never heard of phorum before but i can investigate it. again on the same timeframe as IRC integration: no work in the next 1.5 weeks and should be able to by 4 weeks from now [19:23:10] that's fine [19:23:14] okaycool [19:23:25] --> r2wj (~Kevin@c-98-217-64-168.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #freeculture [19:23:26] ok, let's move on to the next topic; how and when do we want to have these meetings permanently [19:23:31] Hello r2wj! [19:23:36] hey does anybody here have write access to @freeculture? [19:23:38] hey paulproteus ! [19:23:40] hey astory ! [19:24:15] yo [19:24:17] hi! [19:24:17] yes, i have [19:24:23] would you like to help post things? [19:24:30] cool yes [19:24:32] pm [19:24:41] lots of people here this evening [19:24:44] r2wj: you have shell and i think root. try poking around in ~freecult/passwords [19:24:44] all the heavy hitters [19:24:56] r2wj: did you know i'm moving to beantown next week? [19:25:18] yes [19:25:21] and I am fucking stoked about it [19:25:24] astory: sorry [19:25:25] hi [19:25:31] now I can finally hit the clubs with you [19:25:36] so sorry i didn't make scheduling this one go smoothly [19:25:42] thanks for coming anyway [19:25:51] did I walk into the middle of a meeting [19:25:55] i think that in general sunday evenings could be great [19:26:00] r2wj: yarp [19:26:03] yeah, I like this time [19:26:07] other opinions? [19:26:25] this time kinda sucks in california, but i'm only here this weekend and next [19:26:40] actually, so i think i won't be able to do it next sunday at this time [19:26:41] hm [19:27:02] that's fine, we can adjust individual meetings ad-hoc [19:27:06] thinking outside the scope of next week though, more generally, something like 10pm would be nicer than 7pm eastern, i think [19:27:07] paulproteus said we weren't meeting next sunday? [19:27:07] for me [19:27:09] thoughts? [19:27:26] but I want a general time. I'm ok with any time in the evening [19:27:30] jeremyb: we haven't decided [19:27:36] a) I like fortnightly. [19:27:40] b) I think this time is okay. [19:27:48] c) the 6pm variant is also okay with me. [19:27:49] well i'll be UTC+2 next sunday [19:27:55] and flying monday morning [19:27:57] paulproteus: what about 10pm? [19:28:02] Much less good. [19:28:07] Like 10% success chance [19:28:11] paulproteus: is that grendel's? [19:28:14] Ya [19:28:17] okaycool [19:28:20] i guess i want to go to that [19:28:42] is 7 good? It means I can have dinner and eat it too [19:28:45] okay, let's keep this for now [19:28:50] I'm okay with 7. [19:28:59] rockin [19:28:59] I prefer 6 but 7 is totally okay. [19:29:07] And today 7 was better than 6. [19:29:12] i'll even put it on my effing calendar [19:29:20] I prefer biweekly meetings, what are peoples' preferences? [19:29:30] ps: having a SFC google-or-otherwise calendar could rock [19:29:37] pyrak: I might make one [19:29:55] biweekly is fine [19:29:58] paulproteus is full of jokes tonight! [19:30:08] i prefer biweekly [19:30:11] i would like to say something like "it'd be great to have an email check-in on sunday evenings on off weeks" [19:30:19] I think that'd be quite nice. [19:30:24] To keep us moving along between meetings. [19:30:30] that'd be fine, I'd like to hit a few hot bugs [19:30:39] rockin [19:30:41] but I don't want to deal with the overhead of a formal agenda [19:30:49] SMS REMINDERS [19:30:50] yeah, that makes so much sense [19:31:01] r2wj: that's between you and your calendar [19:31:05] the 37signals guys would have us never have meetings at all [19:31:07] I prefer human-based reminders for the "off" week. [19:31:13] unless we need to make a decision on something or something [19:31:48] I think that having actual meetings is important for motivation. I know that on a lot of projects I feel motivated because I don't want to let someone down to their face [19:31:54] (that's a sidenote. i just read re-use or whatever, by the 37signals guys. liked it.) [19:32:07] ugh, my internet is crapping out and I lost piratepad access [19:32:13] ohboy [19:32:15] i'm still in there [19:32:21] i'll take notes on this meetings decision [19:32:22] I'm having trouble with the pad also, fwiw. [19:32:32] i just got back in [19:32:37] there we are [19:32:43] ive had better luck with typewith.me recently, fwiw [19:32:57] is that an etherpad too? [19:33:03] pyrak, you're duplicating [19:33:06] look up [19:33:58] Wait, how did doing Phorum work get assigned to me? :P [19:34:18] I'd much rather mentor someone else in doing it. [19:34:34] wait, now it's assigned to me [19:34:35] ok, sfc google calendar with this event on it is at http://www.google.com/calendar/hosted/cornell.edu/embed?src=cornell.edu_j7agdj2i1qudpdo3qdlf7g11cc%40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=America/New_York [19:34:44] rockin! [19:34:45] well, maybe [19:34:56] oops, added event to the wrong one [19:35:07] can you invite me to it? [19:35:09] or something [19:35:22] nvm, ill figure it out [19:35:23] it should be public [19:35:52] pyrak: Sweetness. [19:36:04] I'm going to carefully read "Git Proposal" again now. [19:36:14] ok, cool, please read the proposal, since that's next on the docket [19:36:15] I had some feedback earlier for you, astory; did that get addressed? [19:36:20] astory: google username? [19:36:25] (feel free to PM) [19:36:32] paulproteus: some of it, could you re-iterate? [19:36:40] I'll try to find it in scrollback. [19:36:44] pyrak: it should be public, click the link [19:37:19] oh, there's a nice + button there [19:37:22] -*- pyrak is embarassed [19:37:39] -*- paulproteus also missed the + button [19:37:44] found it [19:37:46] pyrak: 3 ppl missed it [19:38:42] okay, for this part i actually do need you, astory: can you give me permissions to modify the google calendar? [19:38:50] meanwhile, i'll give thoughts on git migration [19:38:52] let's see [19:39:31] pyrak: I think I did [19:39:44] i agree! [19:40:16] i think having a calendar rocks so much [19:40:22] things like document freedom day should be on it [19:40:34] go right ahead and add [19:40:34] adding now [19:40:40] you also have sharing permissions [19:41:37] rockin [19:41:45] i'd like to do things like show this on the main site somewhere [19:41:48] paulproteus: your comments? [19:41:50] and tell the members of discuss to subscribe to it [19:41:52] astory: I'm making some simple edits first [19:41:57] ok, cool [19:42:01] i anticipate getting chewed out for it being google [19:42:06] i'll add this to my todo list [19:42:26] pyrak: if there's another solution, I'm all for it, but this is how I organize my calendar and it's convenient for me [19:42:38] I'm also completely biased, so [19:42:50] astory: me too maybe [19:42:56] pyrak: you get a job? [19:42:59] astory: I updated the doc to say: "(With our svn setup, anyone can do a checkout.)" [19:43:00] i don't have a host yet [19:43:06] do you? [19:43:11] pyrak: very nearly [19:43:18] pyrak: Do you want to work on Google Page Speed? [19:43:19] anyway, this is for later [19:43:22] If so I can maybe find you a lead. [19:43:29] But post-meeting [19:43:56] https://code.google.com/p/modpagespeed/ [19:44:05] ok, so do any of you have comments, then? [19:44:08] astory: I'm confused re: Git proposal [19:44:28] You write, "The server's running code is simply a local repository that tracks the blessed one." [19:44:42] But to do that, you'll have to keep things like WordPress in our git repo, or otherwise help people pull it. [19:44:51] Right now, fco_svn just contains a random smattering of things. [19:44:53] I shouldn't have said code [19:44:55] It doesn't contain the entire website + its config. [19:45:01] I meant whatever the server is serving on the repo [19:45:05] Oh, I see! [19:45:26] but I was under the impression that ultimately we wanted to be able to download a copy of fc.o and hack on it locally [19:45:27] I argue we should simply Not Bother running a git daemon on the server. [19:45:37] And just rely on e.g. Gitorious. [19:46:01] I agree, there is a large advantage in that gitorious manages ssh keys through their user manager rather than us having to do it manually [19:46:03] So it seems like this Git_proposal is really, "Move fco_svn to use git" rather than "Make the website be insta-hackable like Diaspora", right? [19:46:19] paulproteus: yes. That is a long-term goal, but not the immediate one [19:46:58] astory: Cool, then I like the proposal so far. [19:47:09] pyrak: jeremyb: comments? [19:47:10] Changes suggested: 1) Make it clear that we won't provide a git daemon. [19:47:25] 2) Make it clear that it's not about making it insta-hackable, just about where the fco_svn data gets stored. [19:47:40] 3) (Controversial) Right now, fco_svn is one big svn repo that contains a bunch of other subprojects. [19:47:45] my one problem is that i'm not convinced that this actually makes things not more hard for sorta-noob hackers to contribute [19:47:55] I think that each subproject should have its own separate git repo. [19:48:11] paulproteus: that's controversial! [19:48:14] astory: i don't think i had any when i read it the first time, haven't read it today [19:48:22] pyrak: well, it means that they don't have to ask for our permission as much, and it's much faster for us to grant permission [19:48:27] jeremyb: it hasn't changed much [19:48:28] -*- jeremyb doesn't get 20 23:45:01 I meant whatever the server is serving on the repo [19:48:43] 4) A benefit that you don't mention is that we get a web view of the code. [19:48:45] jeremyb: "whatever's in the repository now" [19:48:51] that's true! [19:49:00] although we shouldn't say code for the reasons discussed above [19:49:04] (re: 4) pyrak, that's one adfvantage) [19:49:05] astory: yeah, that makes sense. i guess it's harder in that she needs to pull and then push to somewhere else and ask for someone higher up to pull from there [19:49:21] yes, that's true [19:49:38] especially if she doesn't already have a nice thing to push to [19:49:44] but we could give her something like that... [19:49:47] but it's actually a little better - they can do that all on their own, and then walk away, and we merge later [19:49:49] or maybe gitorious makes that easy? [19:49:54] pyrak: gitorious makes it pretty easy [19:50:06] and the pull request can be done all in gitorious [19:50:12] then as long as we write a wiki page walking ppl through that, then i think this rocks [19:50:17] right, cool [19:50:22] (fwiw, we already have a web view of our svn repo) [19:50:34] (pyrak: it doesn't do syntax highlighting, so it doesn't count :P) [19:50:59] -*- pyrak mumbles something about a 1-line php script i could wrap around it [19:51:14] I have a preference to "outsource" things where possible. [19:51:21] no, i agree [19:51:25] pyrak + astory: What do you think of my "separate repositories for separate projects" thing? [19:51:41] paulproteus: re subprojects: I like it. one problem with git is that subprojects are not handled gracefully [19:51:44] i'm worried about key bin proliferation [19:51:57] astory: So, check out http://gitorious.org/openhatch [19:51:57] pyrak: I don't know what you mean [19:51:59] but i agree with astory's point made just now [19:52:05] On Gitorious, one "project" can have many "repositories" [19:52:17] ok, sure, but that's just semantics [19:52:20] oh, and you put all the keys for the project in one place? [19:52:24] pyrak: Ya [19:52:29] moving content between repositories, merging or splitting is hard [19:52:31] if that's true, then i'm cool with multiple repos [19:52:51] pyrak: yeah, the main key will just be whoever controls access to the repos, and to pulling to the server [19:53:26] i'm not sure what that means [19:53:48] (but i understand that its supposed to reassure me. and im not worried anymore) [19:53:57] pyrak: on gitorious, you control who can push to a repository. we can control who pushes to the blessed repository thereby [19:54:15] and anybody who can edit ~freecult on the server can pull and modify the server [19:54:22] regardless of the number of repositories [19:55:35] paulproteus: the main issue I have right now is whether to migrate to a monolithic repository for the moment or do the splitting [19:55:41] splitting! [19:55:43] git-svn has support for it. [19:55:51] It's way saner, IMHO. [19:56:01] astory were you planning to do git-svn? [19:56:04] paulproteus: ok, so I need help in identifying what parts to split out [19:56:08] pyrak: yes, for the initial merge [19:56:12] s/merge/move [19:56:16] astory: Cool; we can talk through that post-meeting if you like. [19:56:17] and then after that, not at all [19:56:20] ok, cool. [19:56:21] isn't there an svn2git? [19:56:24] --> Channel6 (~blah@adsl-75-36-250-100.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) has joined #freeculture [19:56:24] <-- Channel6 (~blah@adsl-75-36-250-100.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) has quit (Changing host) [19:56:24] --> Channel6 (~blah@unaffiliated/yourkicks) has joined #freeculture [19:56:29] jeremyb: Yeah, it's called git-svn (-: [19:56:31] you can also use github to do it [19:56:37] which probably just uses git-svn [19:57:10] rockin! astory: will you own this git migration process? [19:57:22] yes [19:57:24] astory: https://github.com/nirvdrum/svn2git is a wrapper for git-svn that you might possibly like, fwiw [19:57:37] I'll look. git-svn can be hairy at times [19:57:52] astory: would you like to set a goal for next sunday, or the sunday after? [19:58:07] we'll see :D [19:58:17] okaycool [19:58:17] let's say this sunday, I'm on break this week and theoretically can be productive [19:58:26] i propose that we are ready to hack [19:58:36] yeah, let's end this meeting [19:58:44] astory: http://blog.hartwork.org/?p=763 also [19:58:46] someone want to volunteer to get the transcript up? [19:59:19] hey pyrak can you get me that twitter password pleeeeassee :) [19:59:30] r2wj: you couldn't find? [19:59:36] ~freecult/passwords [19:59:40] it just said 'WE SHOULD PUT THIS HERE' [19:59:43] for twitter [19:59:43] haha [19:59:48] astory: I can rock it. [19:59:52] ..i hope that wasnt the password.. [19:59:52] note: identica posts to twitter, so should post to identica [20:00:00] r2wj: naw [20:00:01] OoOoOoo I didn't know that [20:00:04] paulproteus: thanks [20:00:06] tx pyrak [20:00:13] never used identica before [20:00:17] pyrak: It'd be great if you'd write a "Web team explainer" about posting to our identi.ca/twitter [20:00:21] super easy--just like twitter [20:00:35] paulproteus: yeah, i agree [20:00:49] pyrak: I'll file a bug for you then [20:00:51] i'm still secretly worried about documentation splintering with explainers and non-explainers [20:00:56] okaycool [20:01:01] pyrak: Yeah, I see what you mean. [20:01:06] re: splintering [20:01:17] One day we can use transclusion to make it less so. [20:01:22] maybe next meeting we should work on moving everything in the current site documentation to explainers and recipes? [20:01:30] also, shouldnt identica posting be a recipe? [20:01:37] pyrak: Yeah, eventually I agree with you re: recipe [20:02:06] minutes go here http://wiki.freeculture.org/2011-03-20 [20:02:40] pyrak: Maybe good for Cthurs? [20:02:49] https://bugs.launchpad.net/web/+bug/739058 [20:03:16] OHHHHH IShadowed is a pun! [20:03:54] ? [20:04:06] Eye Shadowed [20:05:55] paulproteus: I need to eat dinner, can we catch up on git later? [20:06:12] astory: Yes-ish; I'll be online until 9pm or so, then offline until tomorrow probably. [20:06:25] ok, I'll probably try to catch you tomorrow [20:06:27] astory: Cool [20:06:29] My next steps: [20:06:32] * Email the list with a link to minutes [20:06:39] * Ask Cthurs to work on https://bugs.launchpad.net/web/+bug/739058 [20:06:47] * Be done thinking about sfc for now. [20:06:52] :D [20:06:52] Anything else I should add to that? [20:07:39] swat bugs? [20:07:52] -*- paulproteus gets shifty-eyed. [20:08:56] -*- jeremyb also heads to eat [20:09:05] uh oh, dinner emergency [20:10:59] i'm also having something of a dinner emergency [20:13:16] in that i'm hungry [20:13:26] does that count as a dinner emergency? [20:13:44] -*- pyrak goes and munches, then comes back and squashes bugs, then goes and eats for real maybe [20:13:45] or something