Archive talk:2005-12-18

Chatlog of the Core Team Chat
[12/18/2005 4:15 PM] =-= Topic for #freeculture is ``sign up for http://www.frappr.com/freeculture and show us where your hometown is!''

[12/18/2005 4:15 PM] =-= Topic for #freeculture was set by skyfaller on Wednesday, December 07, 2005 9:53:36 PM

[12/18/2005 4:15 PM] Scudmissile is Andy at the University of Evansville, Indiana. He is majoring in Internet Technology and is passionate about music and the presentation of information.

[12/18/2005 4:25 PM] |<-- skyfaller has left freenode (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))

[12/18/2005 4:38 PM]  core team chat starts here in 30 minutes! agenda is here: http://wiki.freeculture.org/index.php/2005-12-18

[12/18/2005 4:43 PM] -->| skyfaller (n=skyfalle@wikipedia/Skyfaller) has joined #freeculture

[12/18/2005 4:43 PM] skyfaller is Nelson Pavlosky & has a blog at http://nelson.freeculture.org & was an intern at the EFF & living in Swarthmore, PA & was a victorious plaintiff in the Diebold case & a senior at Swarthmore College

[12/18/2005 5:03 PM] -->| mllerustad (n=chatzill@CPE-65-25-229-93.mn.res.rr.com) has joined #freeculture

[12/18/2005 5:03 PM] mllerustad is a music nerd and Karen Rustad

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[12/18/2005 5:05 PM] -->| gavinb (n=449d0bb9@yossman.net) has joined #freeculture

[12/18/2005 5:05 PM] gavinb is Gavin Baker (http://www.gavinbaker.com), co-founder of Florida Free Culture (http://uf.freeculture.org)

[12/18/2005 5:06 PM] alrighty then

[12/18/2005 5:06 PM] hola

[12/18/2005 5:07 PM] Yo.

[12/18/2005 5:08 PM]  oh, i'm here too :)

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[12/18/2005 5:08 PM] thessalylaforce is Thessaly from Columbia U

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[12/18/2005 5:08 PM] whee :-)

[12/18/2005 5:09 PM] hello hello

[12/18/2005 5:10 PM] OK, I think most everyone who's coming is here....

[12/18/2005 5:10 PM] shall we start on the agenda?

[12/18/2005 5:11 PM] anybody want to take minutes?

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[12/18/2005 5:12 PM]  i'll take 'em

[12/18/2005 5:12 PM] hey Erek

[12/18/2005 5:12 PM]  Heya all, Erek here from Swarthmore

[12/18/2005 5:12 PM] ?def saha1

[12/18/2005 5:12 PM] Nobody has defined saha1 yet

[12/18/2005 5:12 PM] ?def sahal

[12/18/2005 5:12 PM] sahal is not Andrew, but is a High School Student named Sahal Ansari from Chicago, IL

[12/18/2005 5:12 PM] awesome, we've got someone taking minutes, let's get started

[12/18/2005 5:13 PM]  i'll attempt to catch up on attendance...

[12/18/2005 5:14 PM]  ?def mllerustad

[12/18/2005 5:14 PM] mllerustad is a music nerd and Karen Rustad

[12/18/2005 5:14 PM] Bill Gates is Time's person of the year? can we say, lame

[12/18/2005 5:15 PM] What for?

[12/18/2005 5:15 PM] ... Gavin, that's totally not on the agenda ;-)

[12/18/2005 5:15 PM]  and Bono isn't exactly popular with people, either

[12/18/2005 5:15 PM]  but, yes, we can discuss that afterwards

[12/18/2005 5:15 PM] so, first thing on the agenda... We have a new board of directors

[12/18/2005 5:16 PM] *trumpet noises*

[12/18/2005 5:16 PM] It features me, Gavin, Karen, and Elizabeth

[12/18/2005 5:16 PM] and Fred is being considered for a seat on the board as well

[12/18/2005 5:16 PM] agenda shmagenda

[12/18/2005 5:17 PM]  (the best part of taking minutes of chats is the power of copy and paste!)

[12/18/2005 5:17 PM] I thought it would be good to mention this at the next core team meeting (i.e. this one) because the existence of a board of directors is supposed to change how things work around here

[12/18/2005 5:17 PM] in the past, the Core team has theoretically been the decision-making body

[12/18/2005 5:18 PM] which of course, hasn't worked too well

[12/18/2005 5:18 PM] even though in practice decisions were made by whoever was around at the time and cared the most

[12/18/2005 5:18 PM] given that there's voting or requirement to participate, and no one to decide when something is decided

[12/18/2005 5:18 PM] *no voting

[12/18/2005 5:19 PM] And no quorum.

[12/18/2005 5:19 PM] so what are the considerations re Fred?

[12/18/2005 5:20 PM] well, he didn't apply by the deadline, but elizabeth told us this week that he's interested in being on the board

[12/18/2005 5:20 PM] so the basic idea is that the Board of Directors is the new decision-making body. It currently has 4 members, and a majority of its members must approve any course of action before it can be taken. This creates the possibility of deadlock, but we think that's currently acceptable.

[12/18/2005 5:21 PM] Also, Fred has had a poor record of attending meetings. It isn't his fault today, because he's on an airplane, but he has been somewhat absent from the national org.

[12/18/2005 5:21 PM] well, so maybe this is a good way of getting him more involved

[12/18/2005 5:21 PM] i don't have any problem with that, except that a.) he missed the deadline, and second-guessing ourselves sets a poor precedent; and b.) his chapter hasn't exactly been in the closest communication with the national -- we want to know he's committed

[12/18/2005 5:22 PM] ah i see

[12/18/2005 5:22 PM] but having 5 members would avoid the problems of having an even number of votes

[12/18/2005 5:22 PM] anyway, hopefully we'll get to talk it over with him later today

[12/18/2005 5:22 PM] Yes, so the proposal I made was to invite him to the next few board meetings, and if he makes it regularly and participates on the nat'l level, we'll accept him to the board

[12/18/2005 5:23 PM] but like Gavin said, we're supposed to meet with Fred after this meeting to discuss that

[12/18/2005 5:23 PM] Fred aside, does anyone have any questions or concerns regarding the board of directors?

[12/18/2005 5:23 PM] well, maybe we should expand a bit on what it changes

[12/18/2005 5:24 PM] we've technically had a board since may, but nick was inactive, so it was just nelson and me

[12/18/2005 5:24 PM] the idea is to have real corporate governance for the first time

[12/18/2005 5:24 PM] this is probably better written up in a document rather than expounded through IRC... but continue, maybe the minutes will be useful ;-)

[12/18/2005 5:24 PM] to have an accountable body that makes binding decisions

[12/18/2005 5:25 PM] so when someone has a question, they know where to go -- and they know that the answer they get is the real answer

[12/18/2005 5:26 PM] Also splits the national-level workload between more people.

[12/18/2005 5:26 PM] yeah, we hope for future boards to be bigger than this one, too

[12/18/2005 5:26 PM]  until it becomes Core Team 2: Electric Boogaloo

[12/18/2005 5:26 PM] the idea is sort of to formalize the formally pretty personalistic "rule"

[12/18/2005 5:27 PM] yeah -- it should be noted that we tried to improve on the Core Team before, with this summer's ill-fated -- what was that thing called?

[12/18/2005 5:27 PM] If being on the board of directors is something that you're interested in, help out at the nat'l level and apply when we call for applications at the end of this semester.

[12/18/2005 5:28 PM] the Steering Cmte., that's it

[12/18/2005 5:28 PM] yeah, that piece of condensed lameness

[12/18/2005 5:28 PM] so we tried to have a Steering Cmte., where the members agreed to participate on everything, but that also failed

[12/18/2005 5:29 PM] I think it was because their only purpose for existing was to make decisions, not to actually do work or anything

[12/18/2005 5:29 PM] so hopefully we've learned from that experience and the board won't suffer the same problems

[12/18/2005 5:29 PM]  right

[12/18/2005 5:29 PM] anyway, the basic idea of this is we want to move from anarchy to some sort of libertarian governance

[12/18/2005 5:30 PM] OK, I think we've spent enough time on the board, does anyone have any questions or comments before we move on?

[12/18/2005 5:30 PM] the nat'l still isn't going to dictate that much too the chapters, but what it does dictate will stick

[12/18/2005 5:30 PM] we'll write up something about the board works soon, that's definitely one of the first tasks of the board

[12/18/2005 5:31 PM] we can see this starting with the formalizing of the chapter registration process, and hopefully we'll draw up some guidelines on what the requirements are to be a chapter

[12/18/2005 5:31 PM] We should probably formalize the rules for choosing board members, etc. early on, too.

[12/18/2005 5:31 PM] but our major task, besides instituting the rule of law, is to write the policy documents we need

[12/18/2005 5:32 PM] e.g. the mission statement

[12/18/2005 5:32 PM] OK, I guess since we're not leaving the topic, I may as well mention that our first in-person board meeting is occurring January 4-7 at Harvard, where we hope to hammer out final drafts for those crucial documents

[12/18/2005 5:33 PM] so chapters don't have to keep re-inventing the wheel... when they come to FC.o, they don't have to figure out what we do

[12/18/2005 5:33 PM] hope to = will

[12/18/2005 5:33 PM] yeah... Nelson really wanted to get together in person, in the hope that we'll be able to accomplish a lot

[12/18/2005 5:34 PM] since Elizabeth is stuck at Harvard TA'ing, we're going there

[12/18/2005 5:34 PM] we are spending FC.o money on the travel and maybe some other minor expenses

[12/18/2005 5:34 PM] well, I think it certainly puts some teeth into our deadlines... when I say that we're going to have final drafts by the time we leave, I mean it, even if we have to stay up all night for a few days

[12/18/2005 5:35 PM] but we're doing everything possible to keep costs down... total cost should be less than $500 i think

[12/18/2005 5:35 PM] we'll have to decide whether each board will physically meet, or how we're going to do this... but anyway, that's the situation for now

[12/18/2005 5:36 PM] after this chat, we're going to have a board meeting, so stick around if you want

[12/18/2005 5:36 PM] We'll have clearly defined goals for what we intend to accomplish at our meeting, so you can see whether we accomplish those goals or not and that our money is well spent

[12/18/2005 5:37 PM] uh... that's all i can think to say about the board. anything else to add? questions or comments?

[12/18/2005 5:37 PM] going once, going twice...

[12/18/2005 5:38 PM] Sold!

[12/18/2005 5:38 PM] OK, going three times, we're gone, moving on then....

[12/18/2005 5:38 PM] Next, chapter registration

[12/18/2005 5:39 PM] so we registered a bunch of chapters, created the chapters list, and are organizing the U.S. northeast regional summit

[12/18/2005 5:39 PM] Joe is no longer working on that database thing, so it looks like we're going to have to update the Chapters page the old fashioned way

[12/18/2005 5:39 PM] putting the registration form on the chapters page would be a nice addition as well

[12/18/2005 5:39 PM] but we still haven't updated the Chapters list on the Web site, (haven't shipped stuff?), and haven't given other tools to the chapters in an organizing fashion (e.g. subdomain redirects)

[12/18/2005 5:40 PM] *organized

[12/18/2005 5:40 PM] did we ship anything yet?

[12/18/2005 5:40 PM] I think CC may have started shipping stuff

[12/18/2005 5:40 PM] everything else is still stalled, someone should talk to EFF and CC

[12/18/2005 5:40 PM] I mean PK

[12/18/2005 5:41 PM] Elizabeth was going to talk to some people, but I haven't talked to her recently

[12/18/2005 5:42 PM] if you want to volunteer to help out with shipping, send an e-mail to freedom@freeculture.org or PM one of us personally

[12/18/2005 5:42 PM] so i guess, if someone wants to manually update the chapters list on the web site -- or better yet, created an automated system to do so -- email freedom@freeculture.org

[12/18/2005 5:43 PM] if nothing, we'll bug the web team and hope someone steps forward

[12/18/2005 5:43 PM] oh, crap, nobody responded to the question that CC asked

[12/18/2005 5:43 PM] Hi Elizabeth,

[12/18/2005 5:43 PM] Jennifer will be working on getting these out. How many media kits should each chapter receive?

[12/18/2005 5:43 PM] Wow on the international representation. Good work guys.

[12/18/2005 5:43 PM] Best,

[12/18/2005 5:43 PM] Francesca

[12/18/2005 5:43 PM] can you take care of that skyfaller?

[12/18/2005 5:44 PM] ... yes, but how many should they receive? I have no clue

[12/18/2005 5:44 PM] find out what a "media kit" is

[12/18/2005 5:44 PM] Where's the chapter registration info go out to?

[12/18/2005 5:44 PM] That said whether a chapter wanted CC stuff, right?

[12/18/2005 5:44 PM] Tally those up...

[12/18/2005 5:44 PM] outputs to an email to newgroup@freeculture.org

[12/18/2005 5:45 PM] but all we know is whether they say "yes" or "no"... someone will need to find out what a "media kit" is and whether each chapter who wants CC stuff should get more than 1

[12/18/2005 5:45 PM] OK, I'll call them on Monday

[12/18/2005 5:45 PM] but someone really needs to talk to EFF or PK

[12/18/2005 5:45 PM] *and

[12/18/2005 5:46 PM] anyway

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[12/18/2005 5:47 PM] so anyone who wants to volunteer for either of those tasks, drop a line to freedom@freeculture.org

[12/18/2005 5:47 PM] other issue with chapters is status reports

[12/18/2005 5:47 PM] and also for the task of updating the chapter page on the website

[12/18/2005 5:47 PM] -->| mecredis (n=fred@142.131.38.116) has joined #freeculture

[12/18/2005 5:47 PM] mecredis is fred and he's working at creative commons this summer as the free culture intern then he's heading back to NYC and looking for a realworld job

[12/18/2005 5:48 PM] w00t! Fred, your def is outdated ;-)

[12/18/2005 5:48 PM] yeah

[12/18/2005 5:48 PM] it would be really nice to have a few-sentance summary of what the status of each chapter is

[12/18/2005 5:48 PM] So that we know who needs help and how we might help them

[12/18/2005 5:48 PM] ?def mecredis fred is in banff canada snowboarding

[12/18/2005 5:48 PM] mecredis fred is in banff canada snowboarding

[12/18/2005 5:49 PM] and also what stuff the chapter has done, what worked and what didn't

[12/18/2005 5:49 PM] ?def mecredis

[12/18/2005 5:49 PM] mecredis is fred and he's working at creative commons this summer as the free culture intern then he's heading back to NYC and looking for a realworld job

[12/18/2005 5:49 PM] eh bah

[12/18/2005 5:49 PM] ok, I'll give nyu?

[12/18/2005 5:49 PM] mecredis: sure, but not now

[12/18/2005 5:49 PM] yeah I figured

[12/18/2005 5:49 PM] yeah, i think we can get some chapters to write their own summary

[12/18/2005 5:49 PM] what we need is updates from all the chapters, including the ones that don't come to chats

[12/18/2005 5:50 PM] but i know that some simply won't respond, especially until we have clear specifications and examples of what we want

[12/18/2005 5:50 PM] it seems unfair to punish chapters who don't respond until we can tell them what we want from them

[12/18/2005 5:50 PM] I agree

[12/18/2005 5:51 PM] lets think of the important information

[12/18/2005 5:51 PM] that we actually need

[12/18/2005 5:51 PM] and it's also good to try to personally reach the ones that are unresponsive, to show effort on our part

[12/18/2005 5:51 PM] first, contact information of the flagshipper

[12/18/2005 5:51 PM] so i guess we should send out a notice for chapters to write their own reports, but i think we'll need some interviewers to follow-up

[12/18/2005 5:51 PM] I'm not sure that's going to be as succcesful

[12/18/2005 5:51 PM] as asking specifically

[12/18/2005 5:51 PM] like 1 out of 10

[12/18/2005 5:51 PM] how close are you to being a recognized clbu?

[12/18/2005 5:51 PM] yes, but it's a good way to start ^_^

[12/18/2005 5:52 PM] let's make a page on the wiki and start writing this

[12/18/2005 5:52 PM] I'll get one up

[12/18/2005 5:52 PM] ... also, what is this going to do that the chapter reg form didn't?

[12/18/2005 5:52 PM] the chapter reg form supposedly tells us whether a chapter is officially recognized

[12/18/2005 5:52 PM] good question N

[12/18/2005 5:52 PM] Presumably, people'd be writing these paragraphs every semester.

[12/18/2005 5:53 PM] The registration form's just to indicate a chapter's existence.

[12/18/2005 5:53 PM] and it also tells us how many members the chapter has, whether it has a budget, etc.

[12/18/2005 5:53 PM] so I think we're trying to get information that won't fit into a form

[12/18/2005 5:53 PM] What events they held, any specific request for help...

[12/18/2005 5:53 PM] just judging from my experience

[12/18/2005 5:53 PM] reporting the existence of a club

[12/18/2005 5:53 PM] and membership

[12/18/2005 5:53 PM] isn't that useful

[12/18/2005 5:53 PM] what would hav ebeen useful

[12/18/2005 5:54 PM] is like a howto-event page

[12/18/2005 5:54 PM] like specific events

[12/18/2005 5:54 PM] that people can host

[12/18/2005 5:54 PM] something we want to work on

[12/18/2005 5:54 PM] but we need to know, of the chapters that registered, which have done anything

[12/18/2005 5:54 PM] no point sending free stuff to chapters that don't really exist

[12/18/2005 5:55 PM] and if things are going poorly, how *they think* we could help them

[12/18/2005 5:55 PM] and to find out what roadblocks there are, and what they've accomplished

[12/18/2005 5:55 PM] what we think would help them isn't as useful as knowing what they want

[12/18/2005 5:55 PM] although that doesn't mean we should stop thinking ;-)

[12/18/2005 5:55 PM] i mean, for a supposedly (inter)national organization, we really have very little idea what the chapters are doing

[12/18/2005 5:56 PM] which is like one of the most basic tasks a national org should do

[12/18/2005 5:56 PM] well wasn't that the idea of the RSS feeds?

[12/18/2005 5:56 PM] maybe it should be on us

[12/18/2005 5:56 PM] to gather the information

[12/18/2005 5:56 PM] and have a newsletter

[12/18/2005 5:56 PM] once a quarter

[12/18/2005 5:57 PM] yeah, the reg form was a start... RSS feeds is a start... chapters list is a start... but they don't replace personal contact

[12/18/2005 5:57 PM] right, well to what extent

[12/18/2005 5:57 PM] do you mean we should personally contact people?

[12/18/2005 5:57 PM] i think that'd be ideal

[12/18/2005 5:57 PM] our constituients are a bunch of stressed out college students

[12/18/2005 5:57 PM] i don't know whether we can pull it off

[12/18/2005 5:57 PM] but to what end are we doing htis

[12/18/2005 5:58 PM]  so we should wiretap their phones and internet connections!

[12/18/2005 5:58 PM] so that we can just "know" what people are doing?

[12/18/2005 5:58 PM] hah, just ask bush

[12/18/2005 5:58 PM] Lol...

[12/18/2005 5:58 PM] ... the idea is to know where they need help, so we can help them

[12/18/2005 5:58 PM] to be responsive to their needs

[12/18/2005 5:58 PM] The newletter'd be a good output for it, too.

[12/18/2005 5:58 PM] *newsletter

[12/18/2005 5:58 PM] so i think we cut corners by asking for people to prepare their own report, but then contact the people who don't respond

[12/18/2005 5:58 PM] that sounds fine

[12/18/2005 5:58 PM] like a paragraph or two

[12/18/2005 5:58 PM] yeah... technically we have a newsletter (the Announce list) but we haven't used it all semester

[12/18/2005 5:58 PM] Time to change that. :)

[12/18/2005 5:59 PM] it wouldn't be bad to put out an announce e-mail by the end of the year

[12/18/2005 5:59 PM] or for the new year

[12/18/2005 5:59 PM] amanda said she'd prepare one but keeps skipping out on it

[12/18/2005 5:59 PM] yeah

[12/18/2005 5:59 PM] do like a fall semester summary

[12/18/2005 5:59 PM] gavinb: I think it's partially because nobody responds to her e-mails

[12/18/2005 5:59 PM] i don't know that we'd get one accomplished by the end of the year

[12/18/2005 5:59 PM] skyfaller: there is that

[12/18/2005 6:00 PM] Well, we can try. Winter break=more free time.

[12/18/2005 6:00 PM] let's put it on the list of things to do

[12/18/2005 6:01 PM] we will need to decide precisely what we want to glean from these reports and what we want to be in the Announce email

[12/18/2005 6:01 PM] but maybe we should leave that for another time

[12/18/2005 6:01 PM] I'll certainly be willing to work on this, if someone else is with me

[12/18/2005 6:02 PM] should we move on to anything else in today's agenda? or is this it?

[12/18/2005 6:02 PM] erm, shirts

[12/18/2005 6:02 PM] we still need to reorder shirts, we have no XL and we're running out of L

[12/18/2005 6:03 PM] what is the issue with reording them?

[12/18/2005 6:03 PM] also, we need someone with PHP skills to help set up our T-shirts in their web store

[12/18/2005 6:03 PM] mecredis: nobody has done it. That's it.

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[12/18/2005 6:03 PM] also, I'm not sure anyone knows how to do it, so we could use your help with that

[12/18/2005 6:03 PM] Yeah.

[12/18/2005 6:03 PM] I'd be willing to do it, I just don't have the first idea who to contact/etc.

[12/18/2005 6:04 PM]  anyone on the webteam?

[12/18/2005 6:04 PM] I think the first part of the assignment was to ask Fred how to re-order shirts ;-)

[12/18/2005 6:04 PM] skyfaller, do we know exactly what Downhill Battle wants from us for the Web store?

[12/18/2005 6:04 PM] Heh...

[12/18/2005 6:04 PM] Scudmissile: absolutely anyone at all would be acceptable. Are you volunteering? ;-)

[12/18/2005 6:04 PM] mecredis: Hey, Fred...

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[12/18/2005 6:05 PM]  don't you need someone with PHP skills?

[12/18/2005 6:05 PM]  because that's not me

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[12/18/2005 6:06 PM] Scudmissile: LOL! I'm honestly not sure what DHB needs, but I think basically all they need is someone to edit the page

[12/18/2005 6:06 PM] of their webstore to add our shirts

[12/18/2005 6:06 PM] sorry about it

[12/18/2005 6:06 PM] that

[12/18/2005 6:06 PM] which shouldn't be excruciatingly difficult

[12/18/2005 6:06 PM] skyfaller: can you find out exactly what they need?

[12/18/2005 6:06 PM] then we can look for someone to do it

[12/18/2005 6:07 PM] hard to search for something if you don't know what you're looking for

[12/18/2005 6:06 PM]  that's Gavin's poignant quote of the day, folks

[12/18/2005 6:07 PM] <e-fc> sorry, what does DHB ned?

[12/18/2005 6:07 PM] <e-fc> need?

[12/18/2005 6:07 PM] gavinb: OK, what they need is someone to edit the page of the website. My job is to have someone e-mail them, requesting access to DHB's site so they can edit the shopping cart to include our t-shirts.

[12/18/2005 6:07 PM] <e-fc> my fingers are still freezing from being outside..making typing difficult

[12/18/2005 6:07 PM] DHB will then give them access to the website

[12/18/2005 6:07 PM] <e-fc> oh i see

[12/18/2005 6:07 PM] They said they need someone with PHP skills

[12/18/2005 6:07 PM] Yeah, the security block makes it harder to know what's specifically involved.

[12/18/2005 6:07 PM] I'm not sure I'd understand their needs beyond that

[12/18/2005 6:08 PM] skyfaller: are we writing our own page, or adding it to their page, or what?

[12/18/2005 6:08 PM] gavinb: Adding to their page is easiest, so unless we have someone with serious skills that's what we're doing

[12/18/2005 6:08 PM] when are we trying to get this done by?

[12/18/2005 6:08 PM] I have limited but increasing PHP skills

[12/18/2005 6:09 PM] doing it on a separate page would be better, but harder apparently

[12/18/2005 6:09 PM] well, re-ordering shirts should come before setting up the store

[12/18/2005 6:09 PM] and am very familliar with databases, etc

[12/18/2005 6:09 PM] http://www.wevegotyourback.info is my most recent

[12/18/2005 6:09 PM] mecredis: can you help Karen with re-ordering shirts?

[12/18/2005 6:09 PM] do we have funds to do so?

[12/18/2005 6:10 PM] mecredis: we have the proceeds from selling t-shirts plus $2500 from American University, theoretically

[12/18/2005 6:10 PM] mecredis: I just sent you an email on the subject of t-shirts.

[12/18/2005 6:10 PM] well things got a little hairy last time

[12/18/2005 6:10 PM] and CC footed a lot of the bill

[12/18/2005 6:10 PM] so I want a check ready

[12/18/2005 6:10 PM] for $x

[12/18/2005 6:10 PM] but yeah, basically we aren't going to make any money from t-shirts until we get this webstore up

[12/18/2005 6:11 PM] and tell the printers

[12/18/2005 6:11 PM] "we have $x to spend, the check is in the mail"

[12/18/2005 6:11 PM] so I'm not sure one can be prioritized over the other

[12/18/2005 6:11 PM] How much did we spend on shirts last order?

[12/18/2005 6:11 PM] very little

[12/18/2005 6:12 PM] no, I mean how much did us plus CC spend?

[12/18/2005 6:12 PM] basically

[12/18/2005 6:12 PM] CC raiased a lot of money for us

[12/18/2005 6:12 PM] and then bought us 500 shirts

[12/18/2005 6:12 PM] we didn't spend anything on shirts

[12/18/2005 6:12 PM] the shirts acted as a double fund raiser

[12/18/2005 6:12 PM] Alright.

[12/18/2005 6:12 PM] How much did the printer charge per shirt?

[12/18/2005 6:13 PM] ...should we hash out details in another venue?

[12/18/2005 6:13 PM] yeah, let's

[12/18/2005 6:13 PM] FYO the shirts were less than 9 each

[12/18/2005 6:13 PM] Okay.

[12/18/2005 6:14 PM] i don't think we're going to order in the same quantity, though

[12/18/2005 6:14 PM] Yeah.

[12/18/2005 6:14 PM] so they'll probably be slightly more expensive

[12/18/2005 6:14 PM] If we only need L and XL...

[12/18/2005 6:14 PM] ok

[12/18/2005 6:14 PM] more?

[12/18/2005 6:14 PM] i can't see us ordering more than 200-300

[12/18/2005 6:14 PM] ok

[12/18/2005 6:14 PM] karen : what is your aim?

[12/18/2005 6:15 PM] mecredis: silverpiano3477

[12/18/2005 6:15 PM] ok

[12/18/2005 6:15 PM] we'll sort this out

[12/18/2005 6:15 PM] Cool.

[12/18/2005 6:15 PM] where are the shirts getting delivered?

[12/18/2005 6:15 PM] DHB.

[12/18/2005 6:15 PM] they're doing shipping/handling for us

[12/18/2005 6:16 PM] so we need to make sure they have enough L and XL to fill orders for us. If they're feeling nice maybe they'll count up how many are actually on hand so we know where we stand :-/

[12/18/2005 6:16 PM] |<-- paulproteus|lapt has left freenode (Connection timed out)

[12/18/2005 6:16 PM] I say 300 total

[12/18/2005 6:16 PM] 150 Large 150 Xl

[12/18/2005 6:16 PM] mecredis: sounds reasonable

[12/18/2005 6:16 PM] mecredis: what was the original order?

[12/18/2005 6:17 PM] I think 500?

[12/18/2005 6:17 PM] ;et me checl

[12/18/2005 6:17 PM] no

[12/18/2005 6:17 PM] way less

[12/18/2005 6:17 PM] 200

[12/18/2005 6:17 PM] then we're certainly not buying more than 200 this time

[12/18/2005 6:17 PM] ... then maybe we shouldn't order that much L and XL unless we're increasing the rest of the order as well

[12/18/2005 6:17 PM] ok

[12/18/2005 6:17 PM] I agree

[12/18/2005 6:17 PM] I thought it was 500

[12/18/2005 6:17 PM] ok

[12/18/2005 6:17 PM] ok

[12/18/2005 6:18 PM] let me see what i told pedro to re-order

[12/18/2005 6:19 PM] what we said before was: 100-200 shirts, all of them L and XL, 2/3 -3/4 being XL

[12/18/2005 6:19 PM] right

[12/18/2005 6:19 PM] that sounds good

[12/18/2005 6:19 PM] you mean XXL

[12/18/2005 6:19 PM] so it was flexible depending on price point

[12/18/2005 6:19 PM] no, XL -- we don't have any XL

[12/18/2005 6:19 PM] mecredis: no, we never even got XL

[12/18/2005 6:20 PM] i don't know if American Apparel even makes XXL

[12/18/2005 6:20 PM] I think they do

[12/18/2005 6:20 PM] but no matter

[12/18/2005 6:20 PM] anyway, it's not in our order form, and we haven't had any requests for it

[12/18/2005 6:20 PM] I think L is popular enough that we might as well get half and half

[12/18/2005 6:20 PM] but more L and XL is the key issue

[12/18/2005 6:20 PM] oh ok

[12/18/2005 6:20 PM] why don't we do 150 shirts, 75 L and 75 XL?

[12/18/2005 6:20 PM] i just read that wrong

[12/18/2005 6:20 PM] poor Metafilter ordered his XL in like Sept.

[12/18/2005 6:20 PM] sounds good

[12/18/2005 6:21 PM] haha

[12/18/2005 6:21 PM] the 150 number sounds ok

[12/18/2005 6:21 PM] it's probably going to cost like $1500... i think that's ok

[12/18/2005 6:22 PM] its going to be a lot less than that

[12/18/2005 6:22 PM] OK, done, decided... Gavin, did you get my voicemail about the problem with the American University check? You really need to find that thing, otherwise we're going to have to ask AU for another one.

[12/18/2005 6:22 PM] yeah... it must be in the mail that Pedro has

[12/18/2005 6:22 PM] so i can't get it until early January at earliest

[12/18/2005 6:23 PM] <Scudmissile> ok... i'm going to go get food while it's still hot.. i'm logging this, so i'll be able to finish up the minutes later

[12/18/2005 6:23 PM] [INFO] You are now marked as away (Eating). Click the nickname button or use the |/back| command to return from being away.

[12/18/2005 6:23 PM] Cool.

[12/18/2005 6:23 PM] but still... that check was probably written well more than 90 days ago... isn't that when most checks expire?

[12/18/2005 6:23 PM] Scudmissile: OK, thanks!

[12/18/2005 6:23 PM] nelson : can we write a check from FC.org's account?

[12/18/2005 6:23 PM] gavinb: maybe, in which case we're in trouble anyway

[12/18/2005 6:23 PM] =-= paulproteus|lap1 is now known as paulproteus|lapt

[12/18/2005 6:23 PM] mecredis: we can, but it doesn't have the $2500 in it, because nobody at UF ever cashed the checkt

[12/18/2005 6:23 PM] ok

[12/18/2005 6:24 PM] we agreed not the cash the check due to tax concerns

[12/18/2005 6:24 PM] uh

[12/18/2005 6:24 PM] figuring it would be eaiser to spend from nelson's account

[12/18/2005 6:24 PM] gavinb: we did?

[12/18/2005 6:24 PM] well, crap, then we had serious miscommunication

[12/18/2005 6:24 PM] which is probably my fault

[12/18/2005 6:24 PM] yeah... you told me that you deposited the AU check and wrote a check out to FC.o

[12/18/2005 6:24 PM] ok basically the shirts are going to be around $1000

[12/18/2005 6:25 PM] when do we think we'll have that cash

[12/18/2005 6:25 PM] *kind of cash?

[12/18/2005 6:25 PM] which is why i wasn't concerned... b/c if we never cash that check, then you'd still have the money

[12/18/2005 6:25 PM] OK, we need to ask Pedro whether that check has expired

[12/18/2005 6:25 PM] but apparently instead of depositing it, you just endorsed it to FC.o... which doesn't even make sense

[12/18/2005 6:25 PM] the check shoul dbe ok

[12/18/2005 6:25 PM] anyway, that's what happened...

[12/18/2005 6:25 PM] in terms of expiration

[12/18/2005 6:25 PM] gavinb: It was because my family was concerned with taxes too...

[12/18/2005 6:26 PM] but the grant was your "income" regardless of what you do with it... so you'll be taxed on it

[12/18/2005 6:26 PM] ok basically its going to be easist if we can write the printers a check from fc.org

[12/18/2005 6:26 PM] if you give it to FC.o, FC.o just gets taxed on it as well

[12/18/2005 6:26 PM] I think when my dad had me endorse the check, I misunderstood what was going on, because I'm dumb and don't understand money.

[12/18/2005 6:27 PM] we don't actually want the money to go to FC.o

[12/18/2005 6:27 PM] ok

[12/18/2005 6:27 PM] that said

[12/18/2005 6:27 PM] or it'll be taxed as income

[12/18/2005 6:27 PM] whoever can cash the check the easiest

[12/18/2005 6:27 PM] should send the printers the check

[12/18/2005 6:27 PM] but Nelson has already endorsed it to FC.o

[12/18/2005 6:28 PM] we have to get another check from AU if it's going to Nelson's acct

[12/18/2005 6:28 PM] Okay.

[12/18/2005 6:28 PM] Then we should do that. Like now.

[12/18/2005 6:28 PM] Because to get shirts we need the money up front.

[12/18/2005 6:29 PM] ... I can't unendorse it, can I?

[12/18/2005 6:29 PM] no

[12/18/2005 6:29 PM] thats not a good idea

[12/18/2005 6:30 PM] basically

[12/18/2005 6:30 PM] if we wnat the shirts soon

[12/18/2005 6:30 PM] it should come out of our own account

[12/18/2005 6:31 PM] something that's signed can't be un-signed or re-signed

[12/18/2005 6:32 PM] right

[12/18/2005 6:33 PM] OK, if I don't put the money into my account, it's not mine for tax purposes

[12/18/2005 6:33 PM] if I don't cash it, then I don't get taxed fo rit

[12/18/2005 6:33 PM] *for it

[12/18/2005 6:33 PM] the point of a check

[12/18/2005 6:33 PM] is to be cashed

[12/18/2005 6:33 PM] and the money isn't mine, so it shouldn't go into my account

[12/18/2005 6:33 PM] well until

[12/18/2005 6:34 PM] we figure out

[12/18/2005 6:34 PM] you don't take corporation money and put it into your personal account

[12/18/2005 6:34 PM] how FC.org's account

[12/18/2005 6:34 PM] with enouhg money

[12/18/2005 6:34 PM] so if that check is still cash-able, it should be cashed

[12/18/2005 6:34 PM] for t-shirts

[12/18/2005 6:34 PM] the check and the grant were made out to you

[12/18/2005 6:34 PM] true, if you never deposit it as your income, you never get taxed for it -- this is correct

[12/18/2005 6:34 PM] but the check is made out to you

[12/18/2005 6:35 PM] i do not think you can endorse a check to a third party

[12/18/2005 6:35 PM] My dad is telling me he'll kick my ass if I try to put that money into my personal account

[12/18/2005 6:35 PM] besides which, the personal income tax rate is probably less than the corporate rate, so we get taxed less if you hold on it

[12/18/2005 6:36 PM] tell you dad you're a big boy now... we're going to do what's best given our options, which may include putting it in your account

[12/18/2005 6:37 PM] he's worried that if something goes wrong with the money, I could be liable for embezzlement

[12/18/2005 6:37 PM] if you can endorse to a 3rd party and therefore FC.o can deposit it directly, and the check is still valid, we should do that

[12/18/2005 6:37 PM] technically i think putting it to FC.o is embezzlement, but that's just IMHO...

[12/18/2005 6:38 PM] I don't know enough about the actual grant to say...

[12/18/2005 6:38 PM] ok

[12/18/2005 6:38 PM] guys

[12/18/2005 6:38 PM] my dad has a friend

[12/18/2005 6:38 PM] who deals with non profit giving

[12/18/2005 6:38 PM] I can ask him what he thinks about htis

[12/18/2005 6:38 PM] but we can't fuck around

[12/18/2005 6:38 PM] and waste his time

[12/18/2005 6:39 PM] OK

[12/18/2005 6:39 PM] because legal advice is legal advice

[12/18/2005 6:40 PM] can you ask him about it, then? do you know what the situation is?

[12/18/2005 6:41 PM] no

[12/18/2005 6:41 PM] I need specifics

[12/18/2005 6:41 PM] <e-fc> (sorry i haven't taken tax)

[12/18/2005 6:41 PM] <e-fc> (and i'm not sure if i want to either(

[12/18/2005 6:41 PM] <e-fc> )

[12/18/2005 6:41 PM] understandable

[12/18/2005 6:42 PM] ok -- nelson, what's the background on this grant?

[12/18/2005 6:42 PM] My accountant mom is now arguing with my dad, hold on

[12/18/2005 6:42 PM] basically, I was hired as a contractor

[12/18/2005 6:43 PM] <Scudmissile> drama in progress...

[12/18/2005 6:44 PM] Indeed.

[12/18/2005 6:44 PM] so AU sent me this check as a grant, to use this money to work on specific free culture activities, detailed in the grant proposal

[12/18/2005 6:44 PM] nelson

[12/18/2005 6:44 PM] can you write this up

[12/18/2005 6:44 PM] as an e-mail I can forward?

[12/18/2005 6:45 PM] [INFO] You are no longer marked as away.

[12/18/2005 6:45 PM] OK, my mom is certain that I can scratch out the endorsement and deposit it myself

[12/18/2005 6:45 PM] and since she's a CPA, I trust her

[12/18/2005 6:45 PM] <e-fc> hmm..when our school gives us public interest grants, we don't have to pay taxes on them for some reason

[12/18/2005 6:45 PM] now we just need to decide which to do

[12/18/2005 6:46 PM] if the grant was to you, i'm pretty sure it's to *you*, and therefore is your income... putting it anywhere else without reporting it as your income first would be embezzlement, i think

[12/18/2005 6:46 PM] basically we just need to be able to write a check

[12/18/2005 6:46 PM] i feel like the guys in Office Space...

[12/18/2005 6:46 PM] from fc.org's funds

[12/18/2005 6:46 PM] no, the easiest thing is going to be for Nelson to keep the money and write the check from his acct

[12/18/2005 6:47 PM] ok

[12/18/2005 6:47 PM] OK, Fred, I will send you an e-mail detailing exactly what happens.

[12/18/2005 6:47 PM] ok

[12/18/2005 6:47 PM] *happened

[12/18/2005 6:47 PM] gavinb: I think Fred was referring to the T-shirt ordering process

[12/18/2005 6:47 PM] yes

[12/18/2005 6:47 PM] that is correct

[12/18/2005 6:48 PM] Oof, I got to run and eat quick.

[12/18/2005 6:48 PM] I'll be back.

[12/18/2005 6:48 PM] mllerustad: alright, sorry about the messed up meeting

[12/18/2005 6:48 PM] I'm glad we're figuring stuff out, though

[12/18/2005 6:48 PM] 'Sall good.

[12/18/2005 6:48 PM] i'm talking about ordering T-shirts

[12/18/2005 6:49 PM] that grant money is never going to go in FC.o's account

[12/18/2005 6:49 PM] otherwise it'll be taxed twice

[12/18/2005 6:49 PM] the grant is to you... you'll keep the money and spend it from your account

[12/18/2005 6:49 PM] gavinb: I'm tending to agree with you, but we should ask Fred's lawyer friend before making a final decision

[12/18/2005 6:50 PM] but for the moment, we'll assume that's what's going to happen

[12/18/2005 6:50 PM] ok... in that case, it's still not decided where the money will be spent from

[12/18/2005 6:50 PM] but if Nelson deposits the check, Nelson will spend it... so the $ for shirts will come from Nelson, not FC.o

[12/18/2005 6:51 PM] correct

[12/18/2005 6:51 PM] got a grasp on the scenario mecredis?

[12/18/2005 6:51 PM] where is the actual check?

[12/18/2005 6:51 PM] mecredis: inaccessible, in Gainesville

[12/18/2005 6:51 PM] pedro should have it

[12/18/2005 6:52 PM] I just talked to Pedro, and he said he may be able to stop by there a few days after Christmas

[12/18/2005 6:52 PM] i'm not going to bother my lawyer friend

[12/18/2005 6:52 PM] if the check isn't available

[12/18/2005 6:52 PM] mecredis: OK, in that case we'll have to wait for Pedro

[12/18/2005 6:52 PM] well, whether the check is available or not, we have to have a plan

[12/18/2005 6:52 PM] gavinb: can you IM Pedro? My AIM is acting up

[12/18/2005 6:53 PM] whether we deposit it to FC.o or send it back to Nelson will depend on lawerly advice

[12/18/2005 6:53 PM] 7:25:55 PM pealco: hi nelson, there is an envelope sent from you, i guess that's the check -- unfortunately, i'm in miami now and the mail is in gainesville

[12/18/2005 6:53 PM] 7:26:00 PM proudmemberofeff: ah

[12/18/2005 6:53 PM] 7:26:03 PM proudmemberofeff: I see

[12/18/2005 6:53 PM] 7:26:16 PM pealco: ill be gainesville for a few days after christmas, i can check then

[12/18/2005 6:53 PM] 7:37:23 PM proudmemberofeff: ok

[12/18/2005 6:54 PM] so the steps are (1) get the check from Pedro (2) ask Fred's lawyer friend for legal advice on what to do with it (3) deposit it wherever the lawyer tells us to (4) spend it on t-shirts

[12/18/2005 6:54 PM] so we won't have at the check for at least a week or 2

[12/18/2005 6:54 PM] but we have to know what to do with it when we get it

[12/18/2005 6:54 PM] i don't see why not to ask your lawyer friend now

[12/18/2005 6:54 PM] gavinb: because it may be expired

[12/18/2005 6:54 PM] and it will all be in vain

[12/18/2005 6:55 PM] if i'm going to ask a favor from a professional

[12/18/2005 6:55 PM] i don't want to himm and haww

[12/18/2005 6:55 PM] about the status of the check

[12/18/2005 6:55 PM] if it's expired, we'll have to get a new check -- and we'll still need to know where to deposit that!

[12/18/2005 6:55 PM] the status of the check is a non-issue... you don't even have to mention it

[12/18/2005 6:56 PM] ok

[12/18/2005 6:56 PM] what happens

[12/18/2005 6:56 PM] if we assume there is a check

[12/18/2005 6:56 PM] I get advice

[12/18/2005 6:56 PM] do such and such with a check

[12/18/2005 6:56 PM] because it is endorsed

[12/18/2005 6:56 PM] in such a way

[12/18/2005 6:56 PM] and then I say

[12/18/2005 6:56 PM] oops wait we have a normal check instead

[12/18/2005 6:56 PM] i don't understand what that means

[12/18/2005 6:57 PM] ... well, I think if it's written out to me as a contractor, it is proper for me to deposit it in my account, and now that I think about it, they didn't want to make it out to FC.o unless it were a non-profit

[12/18/2005 6:57 PM] yeah

[12/18/2005 6:57 PM] i think the best plan all around is for Nelson to keep it

[12/18/2005 6:58 PM] so we get the original check back to nelson asap... if it's expired, he contacts AU and asks for another

[12/18/2005 6:58 PM] OK, so let's call it officially decided that I'm taking the money.

[12/18/2005 6:59 PM] ok

[12/18/2005 6:59 PM] basically

[12/18/2005 6:59 PM] I'm going to say

[12/18/2005 6:59 PM] you'll have to pay federal and (if applicable) state/local income tax on it... but that's the price we pay for being non-profit

[12/18/2005 6:59 PM] *for not being tax-exempt, rather

[12/18/2005 7:00 PM] so there will be no consulting of lawyer-friends

[12/18/2005 7:00 PM] someone will place the shirt order... the check will come from nelson... and the order will ship to DHB... the shirt company will just have to live with that

[12/18/2005 7:00 PM] Sorry about the family drama on my end... I agree that me taking the money makes the most sense

[12/18/2005 7:00 PM] let's move on

[12/18/2005 7:01 PM] I also have to go soon

[12/18/2005 7:01 PM] so you have the plan now mecredis?

[12/18/2005 7:01 PM] it may take a while to get the money together

[12/18/2005 7:01 PM] sure

[12/18/2005 7:01 PM] let me know when the check is acquired

[12/18/2005 7:01 PM] but once we have it, this is the plan

[12/18/2005 7:01 PM] and it is easy to send something to the shirt printers

[12/18/2005 7:02 PM] i think we're now done with last week's agenda

[12/18/2005 7:02 PM] so the $400 we have in the account now is insufficient?

[12/18/2005 7:02 PM] to order shirts, yeah

[12/18/2005 7:02 PM] prett much

[12/18/2005 7:02 PM] ok

[12/18/2005 7:02 PM] -->| soufron (n=soufron@vol75-8-82-233-239-57.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #freeculture

[12/18/2005 7:02 PM] mecredis: could you work on the DHB store while we're waiting? we can sell what we currently have

[12/18/2005 7:02 PM] no, that's a problem too

[12/18/2005 7:02 PM] well, actually, no

[12/18/2005 7:03 PM] if you're talking about shipping from DHB's stock, that's fine

[12/18/2005 7:03 PM] yeah, we might as well sell them, we ordered 200 t-shirts and they don't do any good sitting on the shelf

[12/18/2005 7:03 PM] yeah... it'd be nice to set that up asap

[12/18/2005 7:04 PM] but yeah, there were actually things on the agenda from last meeting that we haven't talked about yet

[12/18/2005 7:05 PM] .... did Fred drop out?

[12/18/2005 7:05 PM] no?

[12/18/2005 7:05 PM] <JohnBolton> share-and-share-alike t-shirts?

[12/18/2005 7:05 PM] mecredis: could you work on the Downhill Battle webstore?

[12/18/2005 7:06 PM] was that an issue?

[12/18/2005 7:06 PM] maybe that was before you joined

[12/18/2005 7:06 PM] gavin intimated that it wasn't

[12/18/2005 7:06 PM] ? we need someone to work on the web store

[12/18/2005 7:06 PM] ok

[12/18/2005 7:06 PM] that hasn't changed

[12/18/2005 7:06 PM] DHB isn't going to do anything with our shirts until we do that

[12/18/2005 7:06 PM] right

[12/18/2005 7:06 PM] and what changes need to be made?

[12/18/2005 7:07 PM] we need to add our t-shirt to their web store

[12/18/2005 7:07 PM] oh

[12/18/2005 7:07 PM] ok

[12/18/2005 7:07 PM] so you need to ask them for access to their web server so that you can do that

[12/18/2005 7:07 PM] and for instructions on how to do that

[12/18/2005 7:07 PM] right

[12/18/2005 7:07 PM] * soufron is re for your legal problems

[12/18/2005 7:08 PM] well

[12/18/2005 7:08 PM] i"m going to be busy

[12/18/2005 7:08 PM] until after christmas

[12/18/2005 7:08 PM] ah, ok. That's fine.

[12/18/2005 7:08 PM] ok

[12/18/2005 7:08 PM] I remember you had e-mailed them

[12/18/2005 7:08 PM] trying to get this set up

[12/18/2005 7:08 PM] but it never went through?

[12/18/2005 7:08 PM] they want someone with web skills to contact them

[12/18/2005 7:08 PM] I'm not it

[12/18/2005 7:08 PM] ok

[12/18/2005 7:09 PM] whats the e-mail address?

[12/18/2005 7:10 PM] I guess send it to postal@downhillbattle.org and cc it npr@downhillbattle.org

[12/18/2005 7:10 PM] or contact info?

[12/18/2005 7:10 PM] ok

[12/18/2005 7:11 PM] will write it soon

[12/18/2005 7:11 PM] They also said they could send out t-shirts to our chapters for free if we tell them the addresses and how many shirts to send, so I guess I'll do that... Gavin arbitrarily axed orders down to 3 shirts max, but I think 2 shirts max is the best, so we need to figure out what sizes those two shirts will be

[12/18/2005 7:12 PM] best way to do that is to contact the concerned chapters individually, so I can do that and collect a progress report at the same time

[12/18/2005 7:12 PM] because the chapter registration form originally let you ask for as many free shirts as you wanted, rather than restricting you to two shirts max

[12/18/2005 7:12 PM] good

[12/18/2005 7:13 PM] but we should send out an e-mail about chapter reports first

[12/18/2005 7:13 PM] this is a good thing for a wiki

[12/18/2005 7:13 PM] "go in and update yourself

[12/18/2005 7:13 PM] so can someone finish the wiki page and then send out the e-mail?

[12/18/2005 7:13 PM] ""

[12/18/2005 7:13 PM] people won't update themselves

[12/18/2005 7:13 PM] gavinb: some might, but most won't

[12/18/2005 7:13 PM] still worth sending out the e-mail

[12/18/2005 7:13 PM] but we'll generally have to follow up

[12/18/2005 7:13 PM] there's only a few chapters for which this is an issue

[12/18/2005 7:14 PM] we should contact them directly rather than emailing everyone

[12/18/2005 7:14 PM] I meant about chapter reports, chapter reports are necessary for everyone

[12/18/2005 7:14 PM] I'd just rather not spend time collecting chapter reports from people who would do it themselves

[12/18/2005 7:15 PM] and you don't know that until you ask

[12/18/2005 7:15 PM] Back.

[12/18/2005 7:15 PM] <e-fc> hey guys, so i have a presentation and exam tomorrow

[12/18/2005 7:15 PM] <e-fc> i had allocated an hour for board stuff, but obviously it hasn't happened yet

[12/18/2005 7:16 PM] heh, just as Karen returns Elizabeth has to leave

[12/18/2005 7:16 PM] oh, i got confused

[12/18/2005 7:16 PM] yeah, we should email chapters list to ask for reports

[12/18/2005 7:16 PM] but i think we should email directly the chapters that asked for more than 2 free shirts

[12/18/2005 7:17 PM] <e-fc> i mean, as i said in emails, this week until thursday at 4:30 is just really quite bad